Old hole in Green

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

With our 3rd currently out of play we have a temporary hole in play, playing to our chipping green.

Today I found myself with a putt on this ‘green’ with one of the ‘chipping green’ holes bang on my line. This hole had a plastic ‘flag insert‘ in it that was flush with the green, but it was not a flat insert but one designed to hold a flag vertical. Could I have claimed relief from this as an artificial obstruction. I didn’t, and despite hoping to avoid it managed to hit it bang on and my ball was deflected way offline and short.

 

[Imurg]

With our 3rd currently out of play we have a temporary hole in play, playing to our chipping green.

Today I found myself with a putt on this ‘green’ with one of the ‘chipping green’ holes bang on my line. This hole had a plastic ‘flag insert‘ in it that was flush with the green, but it was not a flat insert but one designed to hold a flag vertical. Could I have claimed relief from this as an artificial obstruction. I didn’t, and despite hoping to avoid it managed to hit it bang on and my ball was deflected way offline and short.

I think yes as its a hole made by a Greenkeeper

 

[mikejohnchapman]

Yes if it is on your line of interfering with your stroke. No if it's a replaced hole - although you can try to smooth/flatten it BAU.

 

[jim8flog]

It is an obstruction if both the ball and the obstruction are on the putting green you get free relief for line of play.

16.1 Abnormal Course Conditions (Including Immovable Obstructions)
This Rule covers free relief that is allowed ...............
a. When Relief Is Allowed
(1) Meaning of Interference by Abnormal Course Condition. Interference exists when any one of these is true:
• The player’s ball touches or is in or on an abnormal course condition,
• An abnormal course condition physically interferes with the player’s area of intended stance or area of intended swing, or
• Only when the ball is on the putting green, an abnormal course condition on or off the putting green intervenes on the line of play.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

It is an obstruction if both the ball and the obstruction are on the putting green you get free relief for line of play.

16.1 Abnormal Course Conditions (Including Immovable Obstructions)
This Rule covers free relief that is allowed ...............
a. When Relief Is Allowed
(1) Meaning of Interference by Abnormal Course Condition. Interference exists when any one of these is true:
• The player’s ball touches or is in or on an abnormal course condition,
• An abnormal course condition physically interferes with the player’s area of intended stance or area of intended swing, or
• Only when the ball is on the putting green, an abnormal course condition on or off the putting green intervenes on the line of play.

Exactly this - ty sir!

I guess that it is up to me (in consultation with others in my group?) where I move my ball to as I guess that there must be some form of agreement on that to prevent me claiming relief and then moving my ball to a position that could make my putt a lot easier, irrespective of the hole plug interference on my line.

On @mjc’s observation, I can confirm that it was not a replaced hole, rather a plastic insert not intended as a hole ‘plug’.

 

[rulie]

Exactly this - ty sir!

I guess that it is up to me (in consultation with others in my group?) where I move my ball to as I guess that there must be some form of agreement on that to prevent me claiming relief and then moving my ball to a position that could make my putt a lot easier, irrespective of the hole plug interference on my line.

On @mjc’s observation, I can confirm that it was not a replaced hole, rather a plastic insert not intended as a hole ‘plug’.

No "agreement" with others is required by the Rules. Find the nearest point to where your ball lies that avoids the interference on the line of play, and is not nearer to the hole, and place the ball on that nearest point of relief. Note that the nearest point of relief might be off the putting green.

 

[rulefan]

Exactly this - ty sir!
I guess that it is up to me (in consultation with others in my group?) where I move my ball to as I guess that there must be some form of agreement on that to prevent me claiming relief and then moving my ball to a position that could make my putt a lot easier, irrespective of the hole plug interference on my line.

Re Rulie's comment above, if others in your group believe you are 'cheating' their recourse is to report it to the committee.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Re Rulie's comment above, if others in your group believe you are 'cheating' their recourse is to report it to the committee.

Ok…as suspected…as for many such golfing situations, it’s really just down to my integrity.

 

[SammmeBee]

Note that the nearest point of relief might be off the putting green.

Drop or place in that situation?

 

[chrisd]

Ok…as suspected…as for many such golfing situations, it’s really just down to my integrity.

And rules knowledge

 

[jim8flog]

Exactly this - ty sir!

I guess that it is up to me (in consultation with others in my group?) where I move my ball to as I guess that there must be some form of agreement on that to prevent me claiming relief and then moving my ball to a position that could make my putt a lot easier, irrespective of the hole plug interference on my line.

.

As per rulie and has has been commented by rulesfan many a time the other players are not referees. It is up you to decide the rules and act appropriately.

Asking others is just a courtesy which a lot have got in to the habit of doing. It is always worth telling others why you may be moving a ball to avoid any dispute particularly in match play.

 

[salfordlad]

Drop or place in that situation?

It is place, even if that is off the green (16.1d).

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

And rules knowledge

I guessed I should get relief but wasn’t sure of the nature of the relief. Plus as it was a long putt I was more focussed on weight rather than precise line, so thought I could avoid the hole…maybe not hole the putt as that was unlikely in any case, but get it close. I didn’t want to get into a debate with my match opponent (yes i know that I didn’t have to debate it) or for him to doubt what I was doing, so I just accepted the risk. Three putted and lost the hole. o matter, won the match.

 

[rulefan]

I didn’t want to get into a debate with my match opponent (yes i know that I didn’t have to debate it) or for him to doubt what I was doing, so I just accepted the risk.

But remember a match play opponent is not the same as another player in your group in strokeplay format. He is able to raise an objection at any time before the next hole is started. It is often worth discussing an issue with him at the time.

 

[rulie]

But remember a match play opponent is not the same as another player in your group in strokeplay format. He is able to raise an objection at any time before the next hole is started. It is often worth discussing an issue with him at the time.

But, as you said earlier, even an opponent's only recourse is to advise the player that he is objecting and raise the issue with the Committee. The opponent is not a referee and cannot stop the player from proceeding as the player believes is correct.

 

[rulefan]

But, as you said earlier, even an opponent's only recourse is to advise the player that he is objecting and raise the issue with the Committee. The opponent is not a referee and cannot stop the player from proceeding as the player believes is correct.

Indeed.
it might also be worth noting that in stroke play there is the opportunity to play two balls but in matchplay there is not

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I mentioned to my opponent my ‘bad luck’ to find I had this ‘hole’ bang on my line, and said that I thought that I could probably get relief from it, but should be able to avoid it…pity my golfing brain didn‘t let me…though tbh even though I aimed to play a bit wider of the ‘hole‘ than what I guessed the perfect line to be, I missed-judged the borrow and hit the blasted ‘hole’ ?