bobmac
Major Champion
It's not drawn to scale.
I was taught the figures are
Swing path still affects the direction but only 15-20% compared to the club face.
Old ball flight laws used by world no 1
- Thread starter CMAC
- Start date
It's not drawn to scale.
I was taught the figures are
Swing path still affects the direction but only 15-20% compared to the club face.
sona
Assistant Pro
I am sorry if I am coming over a bit thick but to get my head right, should the red line be curved and finishing at the arrow head? When I hit a bad out to in shot the ball curves in an exterme fade/slice, at address the club face is pointing at the target, so is the face going off line at impact?
bobmac
Major Champion
The red lines just show which direction the ball STARTS
sona
Assistant Pro
Thanks Bob
Ethan
Money List Winner
Luke Donald? What a duffer. He should fire that coach of his and hire someone from this forum who knows something about golf if he ever wants to achieve anything in this game.
As for always hitting a fade or draw, some players like to do that because it eliminate one type of miss. Suppose the flag is on the right side of the green, he will aim towards the centre of the green and try to work it in with a fade. If the fade comes off, great, if it doesn't, centre of the green, and if he overcooks it slightly, still probably on the green. He has probably reduced the chance of missing the green pretty well. His fade or draw is also probably less than 10 feet of movement, not a banana ball slice or a duck hook of the sort that duffers like us call a fade or draw.
Sam Snead had a good approach to the mechanics of fading and drawing. When he wanted a fade, he just thought to himself he would hit a nice fade, and likewise for a draw. He didn't check the laws of ball flight at all.
As for always hitting a fade or draw, some players like to do that because it eliminate one type of miss. Suppose the flag is on the right side of the green, he will aim towards the centre of the green and try to work it in with a fade. If the fade comes off, great, if it doesn't, centre of the green, and if he overcooks it slightly, still probably on the green. He has probably reduced the chance of missing the green pretty well. His fade or draw is also probably less than 10 feet of movement, not a banana ball slice or a duck hook of the sort that duffers like us call a fade or draw.
Sam Snead had a good approach to the mechanics of fading and drawing. When he wanted a fade, he just thought to himself he would hit a nice fade, and likewise for a draw. He didn't check the laws of ball flight at all.
Ethan
Money List Winner
It would be interesting to test these with a balata/blade/persimmon set up versus a titanium/perimeter weighted/multilayer ball set up to see of the responses of ball on club have changed with technology. Perhaps the old flight laws were correct for old equipment and the new for new.
How many players can consciously control the clubhead at impact to within 10* every time?
It's all well and good to be arguing about whether the clubhead is aimed at the target or 10* to the left of it.
But at impact it's going to be aimed where your body tells it be, not where your brain is saying.
I think knowing the flight laws is interesting, but the only way to learn to play the shot is to, ummm, play the shot and learn what your body needs to do to get the ball to do what you want it to do.
I can play a fade pretty well coz my body has sliced a ball time after time after time over the years. So if I can relax, line myself up, and keep my brain out of the way, I've got a fair chance.
But draw one? Not a hope in a hundred.
It's all well and good to be arguing about whether the clubhead is aimed at the target or 10* to the left of it.
But at impact it's going to be aimed where your body tells it be, not where your brain is saying.
I think knowing the flight laws is interesting, but the only way to learn to play the shot is to, ummm, play the shot and learn what your body needs to do to get the ball to do what you want it to do.
I can play a fade pretty well coz my body has sliced a ball time after time after time over the years. So if I can relax, line myself up, and keep my brain out of the way, I've got a fair chance.
But draw one? Not a hope in a hundred.
JustOne
Ryder Cup Winner
^
^
^
I agree, your brain gets in the way
With regards to lining up the face, I agree, that's codswallop as well, some players set up with the face 45° open and still hit a nice draw as they close it somewhat in the downswing.
^
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I agree, your brain gets in the way
With regards to lining up the face, I agree, that's codswallop as well, some players set up with the face 45° open and still hit a nice draw as they close it somewhat in the downswing.
JT77
Tour Winner
Im with u on that ch. I can draw the ball, but I don't think about mechanics I just know its my shape, can fade it too, but its because I think about the ball goin left to right not anything to do with the face at impact. So sometimes I try to play a shot and it doesn't come off, that's why I have a handicap. I find it nteresting that some handicap golfers are going on about this and that with plane and impact, just go and hit the ball, find what works and get the ball in the hole, it doesn't have to be rocket science.
JustOne
Ryder Cup Winner
It isn't though.
People argueing about it makes it seem much more complicated than it is.
Want to fade a ball to the 12 o'clock position?
Aim the clubface at 11 and swingpath to 10
Want to draw a ball to the 12 o'clock position?
Aim the clubface at 1 and swingpath to 2
Want to draw a ball to the 11 o'clock position?
aim the clubface at 12 and swingpath to 1
Want to fade a ball to the 1 o'clock position?
aim the clubface at 12 and swingpath to 11
Want to slice a ball to the 2 o'clock postion?
aim the clubface at 12.30 and swingpath to 12 OR clubface at 12 and swingpath to 10.30
Want to hook a ball to the 10 o'clock position?
aim the clubface at 11.30 and swing to 12 OR clubface at 12 and swingpath to 1.30
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JT77
Tour Winner
J1 I'm sure its not my point was that perhaps some folk need to uncomplicate things for them selves and just play golf instead of worrying and stuff they may not be able to control 100% of the time, find something that works mist of the time and stop over thinking things.
JustOne
Ryder Cup Winner
I agree and I don't... put someone in a car and tell them to drive.... isn't it better if they know SOMETHING about it first? do you let them just drive along in second gear or do you explain what 3rd, 4th and 5th do?
Finding something that 'works' is all well and good if it gives you exactly what you want... and you can remember how to do it... and don't ever want to change/improve on it.
JT77
Tour Winner
I agree knowing something, hence the not over complicate things, I often read on hear things that should be simple, made difficult. I know its personal choice, but for me, I like to keep it simple, hopefully it will continue to work. I got very technical with my short game last year to the point I could have given the game up as it nearly destroyed my whole game, I wouldn't like to see anyone else do it to themselves.
JustOne
Ryder Cup Winner
Yes it can destroy your game.... for a while... until those new things bed in and become natural. We all think about things when we make a change, even simple little things, eg: try weakening someone grip just a little and see if they can actually hit a ball
But there isn't a person on the planet who doesn't have some kind of stuff already buzzing round their head when they play, some swing thought or 'feel' that they are using on the day. Once you know how to make a shot shape it will stay with you.. and it's more comforting to know that you're doing it properly and haven't just 'made it up'
oakey22
Head Pro
Very interesting reading about all of this, so basically the ball will start out on the clubface direction and move in the air because of the swing path? Knowing this and doing it is another matter though. Lol
ArnoldArmChewer
Tour Winner
+1 here, look at Furyks swing, rubbish swing, great player !!
A
Alex1975
Guest
It is still worth knowing and understanding but as has been said, it does not need to over complicate it. You don't have to be standing there going "ok club head open and swing path in to out" you can just feel it out.
The point and the funny part of this thread was that people would not believe that Luke could be wrong in his explanations. That has kinda run its course now but it does rather illustrate nicely that there is a difference between the class room and the field and that doing it is much easier than talking about it.
Craphacker: "How many players can consciously control the clubhead at impact to within 10* every time?"
I would have to say that every golfer that ever hit a shot is trying to control the club head to within 10*, they may not manage it but I am sure they are all trying. Also it does not change the fact that thats how it works and the point of the post.
Region3
Ryder Cup Winner
It's not just about controlling your shots, but the correct knowledge can help you to understand the bad ones as well.
If you see which way the ball starts and which way it moves in the air you don't have to stand there scratching your head wondering what went wrong. The ball flight laws tell you what the face and path were at impact and give you a much better chance of understanding what went wrong with the swing.
A
Alex1975
Guest
This is spot on, reminds me of bobs post a month or so ago about working out and analysing what happened for each shot on the range.
I spent a couple of hours on the range yesterday and in two hours I only hit two baskets of balls, I gave myself loads of time and watched the flight of each ball. After a while I could tell by feel what the ball was going to do so it was a great way to find that feel safe in knowledge that my analysis was correct. After the range I was still hungry to hit balls so I went to the net in my garden and I stood there hitting shots saying "draw", "straight draw", "hook" and so on....
Sad I know but it was fun to me to know what my ball was doing, why it was doing it and trying to control it.
Some want to hit the ball on the green and putt it, I want to move the ball and control it, these laws can help all of us, you dont need to want to move the ball but you do want to understand its movements.
Ethan
Money List Winner
Damn, I have a digital watch.
