Oh No!! Not the 'I' Word again.

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Having read this thread through I think that on balance I'd rather be a 'bleeding heart liberal' than a 'cold callous illiberal ('illiberal' only used as I couldn't post the usual descriptive noun used with cold and callous). So wanna call me a bleeding heart liberal - fair enough.

 

[Fish]

Anyone need a caddie :smirk:

 

[Hacker Khan]

Well this debate took a completely unexpected path.

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

Only 10% of England is urban development... 2% for Scotland, 4% for Wales.

UK isn't too 'full' to take in people fleeing persecution.

There may be the physical space for more people but there certainly isn't enough slack in the infrastructure. These people would need houses to live in, hospital beds, schools to educate the children, jobs and roads to drive their cars on. How long do you think it would take to get all that in place and where is the funding going to come from?

 

[Doon frae Troon]

There may be the physical space for more people but there certainly isn't enough slack in the infrastructure. These people would need houses to live in, hospital beds, schools to educate the children, jobs and roads to drive their cars on. How long do you think it would take to get all that in place and where is the funding going to come from?

Perhaps our hapless leaders should invest in rural areas within the UK rather than continue to turn south of Watford into one large overcrowded, dirty, snagged up metropolitan hell.

 

[Tashyboy]

Having read through the post from front to back, agree with a lot and disagree with a lot.
Recent reading seems to be a lot about skills or lack of, that will be Brought into the UK. The general feeling will be that a lot will be unskilled helping to lower wages in this country. However would it be more of a problem if the masses that come were skilled workers ?

 

[FairwayDodger]

Perhaps our hapless leaders should invest in rural areas within the UK rather than continue to turn south of Watford into one large overcrowded, dirty, snagged up metropolitan hell.

I think there's something in this, although it's much more complicated that your statement suggests. London does suck in a huge amount of people and attracts much more investment (public and private) than other parts of the country. It'd be beneficial in many regards, not just population density, if the wealth could be spread more evenly around the country but it's a rather complicated business ecosystem and would take much more than government action to transform things.

 

[The Green Fairy]

A picture in the press today of a Syrian 'refugee' in Hungary dragging his wife and child onto the rail tracks.

Take a close look at the guy putting his family in harms way and ask yourself if you would be really comfortable to accept him, without screening, into Britain?

 

[jp5]

There may be the physical space for more people but there certainly isn't enough slack in the infrastructure. These people would need houses to live in, hospital beds, schools to educate the children, jobs and roads to drive their cars on. How long do you think it would take to get all that in place and where is the funding going to come from?

Not making cuts to these services would be a start. Perhaps even investing in them at a time of record interest lows.

 

[Beezerk]

A picture in the press today of a Syrian 'refugee' in Hungary dragging his wife and child onto the rail tracks.

Take a close look at the guy putting his family in harms way and ask yourself if you would be really comfortable to accept him, without screening, into Britain?

Yep seen it, I also notice the media now seem to be pushing the old "women and children first" card on the tv now whereas a few weeks ago it was just single males in France getting the coverage.
I'm undecided on all of this, part of me thinks yes, they are in trouble so we should help them out, but on the other hand our country is swamped enough as it is, we have thousands of homeless people who cannot find a roof over their head so how are we going to house thousands more.
All this getting away from the tyranny of Syria business, well they are safe in Turkey, Greece, Albania, Hungary aren't they? Why do they want to continue and get to Germany or the UK unless they're after the free lifestyle we seem to be offering them?
I bet most of them don't want to go back should the situation in Syria improve!

 

[londonlewis]

Challenge the statements made my posters by all means but what you have done here is exactly what you are accusing the poster of.
You have made a decision about him, based on his statement. That is soooooooo wrong and so typical.

The reason we are being well and truly screwed, in this country, is because when people call it what it is, they get pilloried by those that a prone to be 'offended' at every tiny, non-politically correct thing.

We may have an opinion, good or bad and last time I checked, there was not a restriction on that.

Get over it.

I don't think anyone was offended by it being politically incorrect.

He made a decision about every immigrant coming in to this country. You are being pretty hypocritical aren't you.
I am astounded that you have come to his rescue.

 

[londonlewis]

Firstly what I had ( note had, not have ) was 36 years labour in coal mines with a few more left but that choice was taken away. Not a single penny claimed in unemployment benefit and not a penny claimed since retiring 3 weeks ago in Jobseeker's Allowance as I now claim a pension. I could be wrong but a large lump of my contributions went to the European Union. My beloved Missis Tash has paid another 35 years tax etc by nursing, she has 18 months left. Me/We collectively the Tash household through my son working as a class one lorry driver and My daughter being a copper in Sheffield city centre ( don't get me started on what she has to deal with re immigration)have given more than our fair share to the EU and what have we got back......

yup up that's tumble weed you can hear. Diddly squat.

So as a retired fossil I am more than entitled to ask what the EU is doing for me/us. And by that I mean all of us.
At the very least, I would expect for all the EU countries to get together very very soon and try to get this mess sorted and at least sing from the same song sheet. But guess what Our great European Union cannot agree between themselves what to do. What kind of a Union is that.

And people say the younger generation believe themselves to be entitled.

 

[londonlewis]

Here is an opinion of mine.

The sad images of a small child being carried out of the sea, dead were shocking. Questions are being asked about how guilty we feel about this state of affairs.

I do not feel guilty, not at all. The child had parents - they should be jailed for life. I would have died to save a child of mine, not the other way round.

Jesus Christ.

 

[londonlewis]

I was trying to back up your comment, sorry if you misunderstood.

Cheers mate, I did!

 

[Doon frae Troon]

I think there's something in this, although it's much more complicated that your statement suggests. London does suck in a huge amount of people and attracts much more investment (public and private) than other parts of the country. It'd be beneficial in many regards, not just population density, if the wealth could be spread more evenly around the country but it's a rather complicated business ecosystem and would take much more than government action to transform things.

New Towns like Milton Keynes, Livingston and Swindon seem to have worked well.
They put the road structure in first and there is always room to expand.
All close to a motorway network.

 

[londonlewis]

High ideals eh?

Tell me what have you actually done, that makes you more compassionate than me - apart from sitting at a keyboard pontificating.

you don't do compassion. You have ​compassion.

 

[londonlewis]

Belgium and Holland are very small countries. Monaco probably has the highest population per sq kl but thats not apples for apples is it?

If people dont suggest unrestricted then what do they suggest then? I keep hearing people saying we have plenty of room and immigrants make us better off, so should there be a limit or open doors?

Unbelievable. Your ability to gloss over any and all facts is incredible. Ignorance is bliss, I suppose.

 

[londonlewis]

Yes, I must have missed it. So where does the money come from to build all these houses? What about the schools, hospitals, Doctors Surgeries, Water, Gas, Electricity, Sewage treatment and so on and so forth. It cant be ignored.

Given that we are the 6th richest country in the world, I would certainly hope we would be in a better position than most countries to help.

 

[Hacker Khan]

A picture in the press today of a Syrian 'refugee' in Hungary dragging his wife and child onto the rail tracks.

Take a close look at the guy putting his family in harms way and ask yourself if you would be really comfortable to accept him, without screening, into Britain?

I hope for your sake the Aussies are not thinking the same thing....

 

[londonlewis]

I said Population per Sq Kl. You dont seem to be able to grasp that.

I cant be bothered. If I gave supporting data you just say it's biased as you have before. I told you it's based on my own experiences so these are my facts, regarding figures, I don't need them, if you feel my experiences are imaginings then prove it, show me facts and figures than prove my experiences incorrect. I see immigrant labour working in farm fields picking fruit and vegetables, I see them working as shop assistants, I see them as cleaners, working in food production factories, driving taxis, hotel work, bars, supermarkets, cafes, and so on. These are low paid jobs and carried out in the main by people who have come from countries with poor academic standards.

Now, show me how you disprove what I am saying. Or are you accusing me of telling lies?

This is probably the best answer you have written because it shows us all that we are wasting our time discussing this with you.
You've admitted to not needing any facts and that you consider your opinions to be facts. They are not. They are only opinions and based on the vast amount you have shared, they are poorly formed.

You ask us to share facts and figures that prove you incorrect. We keep doing that but you keep ignoring them.