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Oh No!! Not the 'I' Word again.

The Green Fairy said:
Pathetic, the usual diatribe from simple souls who have probably never been there, just seen a documentary or two.
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I've been there, not recognised as people until 1967, last year 1 in 5 Aussies admitted they won't sit next to an aborigine, everyone else in Australia has their roots from an immigrant or convict
 
The Green Fairy said:
It's been years - things have moved on. No use banging on about stuff that cannot be changed, it happened.

They also choose who migrates to Australia and by what means.

Quite a grown up attitude, in my opinion;)
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And with my grown up attitude I find you a very sad person and will not respond again.
 
vkurup said:
I think there are 2 issues at play... they are connected and have overlaps, but they are different.

1) Can Briton sustain the level of immigration?
2) There current 'influx' while resulting in immigration, is actually a bigger humanitarian crisis that the world needs to address. It is not just a European (or UK) problem, but something that the world needs to do some thing about. Iceland, Sweden etc are taking on more people. The middle east countries are conspicuous by their silence.

Re the first question, Immigration is a constant reality in the world and is a two directional thing. Britons go to Spain while the Spanish want to come here. Free movement of EU national is part of the deal with us being the EU. If you ignore the current Syrian crisis, Immigration from non-EU is very tough. International students pay a lot of money to come and study here and have no access to benefits or jobs here (despite what the Sun claims), while professionals have to earn more than the national average to be part of the system (Nurses >£35K rule).

As the world population grows, people migrate between countries or from rural to urban areas and this is leading to societies changing in composition. There is no running away from it. We could choose to vote ourseleves out of the EU and stop all migration from non-EU. But such an iron curtain will also stop British people, business and the overall economy from the benefits of travel and growth - both of which far outweigh the downside of immigration. </end of brain dump>
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Do you honestly believe that if we were out of the EU we would not be able to travel or do business abroad. Do you believe that not being in the EU means we would have no growth in the economy! Do you really believe that?
 
bluewolf said:
I suppose it's easier to forget and move on when you have all the land, power and money.. Might not be quite so easy for those who have nothing left.. Not grown up enough eh?
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Dont the Aborigines need all these immigrants to pay for their pensions? ;)
 
SocketRocket said:
Many people immigrating to the Uk are low skilled and poorly educated. many do work but don't earn enough to contribute a surplus to the exchequer after benefits are paid. The people born abroad to British parents are a very small number and are British subjects unless they decide otherwise. But you know this anyway.

Maybe you could start a list of the Old people we should rid ourselves of. You know, the ones that have contributed a lifetime of Income Tax and National Insurance and taken nothing for most of their lives. Yes, thats a great idea.
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I assumed that my post would be read intelligently. It appears not, so I shall explain.

It was said tongue in cheek. Older people consume more health and social care money, and contribute much less in tax. The demographics of the population are moving from when the NHS was founded when there were approximately 10 million aged over 65 to a position now where there are approximately 16 million and estimated to be 26 million by 2078. This means that there are a much smaller proportion of the population paying tax and NI to fund services for a much larger retired group. It is a simple balancing act and it is getting badly out of balance. The economics are unsustainable, which is why your state pension is slowly disappearing. Even the Tories agree with that bleeding obvious equation.

And make your mind up. Is everyone a welfare scrounger sitting in front of Sky TV or are they hard working people who contribute NI and tax all their lives and take nothing?. Seems like you have different arguments to fit the debate.
 
Ethan said:
I assumed that my post would be read intelligently. It appears not, so I shall explain.

It was said tongue in cheek. Older people consume more health and social care money, and contribute much less in tax. The demographics of the population are moving from when the NHS was founded when there were approximately 10 million aged over 65 to a position now where there are approximately 16 million and estimated to be 26 million by 2078. This means that there are a much smaller proportion of the population paying tax and NI to fund services for a much larger retired group. It is a simple balancing act and it is getting badly out of balance. The economics are unsustainable, which is why your state pension is slowly disappearing. Even the Tories agree with that bleeding obvious equation.

And make your mind up. Is everyone a welfare scrounger sitting in front of Sky TV or are they hard working people who contribute NI and tax all their lives and take nothing?. Seems like you have different arguments to fit the debate.
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Who said that?
 
This idea that old people are a burden because they don't pay their way is a long way from the truth.

Like many of the so-called 'old people' here in the UK I pay a considerable amount of Income Tax out of the already 'taxed' income I managed to save towards my pension. Never taken a days sick pay or unemployment benefit.
 
drdel said:
This idea that old people are a burden because they don't pay their way is a long way from the truth.

Like many of the so-called 'old people' here in the UK I pay a considerable amount of Income Tax out of the already 'taxed' income I managed to save towards my pension. Never taken a days sick pay or unemployment benefit.
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I'm another. We should be ashamed of ourselves :) Wasn't our fault our contributions were spent on anything but our pension fund.
 
drdel said:
This idea that old people are a burden because they don't pay their way is a long way from the truth.

Like many of the so-called 'old people' here in the UK I pay a considerable amount of Income Tax out of the already 'taxed' income I managed to save towards my pension. Never taken a days sick pay or unemployment benefit.
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Oi, you've pinched my words. &#128513;&#128513;
 
Tashyboy said:
Oi, you've pinched my words. &#55357;&#56833;&#55357;&#56833;
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Yep, join the clan!

I'm also a grumpy old fart who hates to see the UK squandering money on so-called refugees - genuine immigrants who are prepared to work and integrate have my wholehearted support. Separatists, cheats and liars can go to ****.
 
drdel said:
Yep, join the clan!

I'm also a grumpy old fart who hates to see the UK squandering money on so-called refugees - genuine immigrants who are prepared to work and integrate have my wholehearted support. Separatists, cheats and liars can go to ****.
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A genuine question. How do you tell them apart?
 
bluewolf said:
A genuine question. How do you tell them apart?
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Ave got facial hair Drdel hasn't. &#128540;r

joking aside, the people that fall into the second category will be the ones who my daughter gives all inclusive residence in her majesty's prison. Unfortunately you don't know which is which until there collars are felt.
 
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There seems to be a lot of people on here basing all their arguments on statistics and articles that they have read. You can read pretty much anything into a set of statistics, have you never heard the expression "lies, damm lies and statistics"?

People say Britain isn't full......must be nice living in a green rural area ;)

Maybe we could build houses on all our golf courses?
 
drive4show said:
There seems to be a lot of people on here basing all their arguments on statistics and articles that they have read. You can read pretty much anything into a set of statistics, have you never heard the expression "lies, damm lies and statistics"?

People say Britain isn't full......must be nice living in a green rural area ;)

Maybe we could build houses on all our golf courses?
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Only 10% of England is urban development... 2% for Scotland, 4% for Wales.

UK isn't too 'full' to take in people fleeing persecution.
 
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