Official WHS Survey

[PaulMdj]

Because a junior has the advantage of getting bigger and stronger each year. His handicap hasn't really been established until he has 'filled-out'. Our juniors pay a couple of hundred pounds a year and they are well looked after. There's no need to expose them to the nonsense that is adult golf.

Mate, with the greatest respect, that’s an attitude from a byegone era.

 

[Dunesman]

That might be the case within a particular club but there needs to be wider trust between clubs. Here in Ireland our union, or whatever it's called now, has decreed that your interclub competition handicap is your lowest index from the previous calendar year and you must have played at least 4 competitions although they don't have to score in your top 8 in 20.

So sticking plasters already.

It looks like the UK regions themselves are not really trusting the handicaps either when it comes to the competitions the same as EG and the general play scores for theirs. There is quite a bit of info on the Ireland site, where they have the above which was interesting, but amusing to see the are further modifying it for next year. Not only is it your lowest in the previous year as you state, but even that is reduced further if you had good results in those competitions this year. So next year, its your 2024 lowest minus X. They literally arent trusting the handicap they give. Fine for your clubs comps, but not for ours.
So regions are putting correction upon correction.

Aus : 0.93 instead of 0.95
Eng : GP scores are second class scores
Irl : Your HI is not taken at face value but adjusted for your play in national competitions
USA : Committee set the factor accordung to field size in the competition. (divisions are only an alternative, Plan B, option, rather than plan A as suggested in England)

1. So much for a common handicap system
2. Regional associations are already applying their own fixes (but telling the rest of us everything is fine).

Its not a good look.

 

[clubchamp98]

Kinda get what you're saying, but two things I don't understand are:
why don't larger clubs have regular separate comps for lower handicaps, if there is demand;
why do lower handicaps even want to enter the twice weekly Stableford comps, believing that they will be fleeced by improvers or handicap cheats?
I guess I'm coming back to my suggestion of pre-defined divisional competition again.

Larger clubs should not need to have separate comps if the system worked properly.

Divisions are great but there is only one winner of the competition!

I just like comp golf and think most single figures like me do to.
It’s just the way comps are going atm it’s putting me off playing.

I’ve lost count of how many times I’ve heard.” See there’s a 46 in” as I’m having coffee before my tee time.
In 40+ years the best I shot was 44 pts

 

[clubchamp98]

But why is it our culture that pretty much everybody wants and gets to compete in every club comp?
I can't think of any other amateur, recreational sport that pits those verging on elite amateur status in direct competition with opponents who play purely for pleasure at a relatively miserable standard - and everything in between.
Yet we would traditionally separate female or junior golfers from male adults of a similar standard.

Turn that on its head.
Why do people who can’t hit the ball properly want to play in competition with very low established players.

Would any other sport let that happen?

People who don’t do GP cards want to play in the comps to keep their handicap current.

I think you will find in most clubs it’s the females that want to be separated from the males.!

 

[clubchamp98]

They're very common at other clubs and folks on here are mentioning getting beaten in Stablefords on a fairly regular basis. I'm not just talking about "majors". Most regular roll-ups and swindles are played to Stableford points.

Yes we have two a month on Saturday and every Tuesday.
So six per month.

 

[clubchamp98]

The game was always accessible, it was Clubs and their protectionist cliques that were the issue.

Why was Max Handicap brought in?

Why did Clubs have Max 18 for comps?

Neither of the above was to help newcomers, it was to protect the long term members.

I’ve been playing Golf just over 40 years, lowest handicap of 9, was alwsys told and still believe the true test of Golf is off scratch.

Now all we hear is the moaning about low handicappers having less chance in handicap comps!

Nobody is forcing you to enter handicap comps!

Low single figures don’t get in scratch comps nowadays there’s so many vanity caps keeping them out who can’t break 80 it’s a joke.
WHS has created problems at both ends of the spectrum.

So if you don’t play club comps that’s it you don’t play any comps.

 

[IanMac]

Mate, with the greatest respect, that’s an attitude from a byegone era.

Perhaps but it's the way some clubs still operate and we all have a choice which club we want to join. That's the joy of a private club.

 

[IanMac]

Mate, with the greatest respect, that’s an attitude from a byegone era.

Do you have 12 year old lads off 30 playing in your Saturday competitions?

 

[Banchory Buddha]

I'm my experience football and rugby do not pit teams verging on elite amateur status directly against duffers.

Have you heard of the fa cup? The Scottish cup? The Scottish amateur cup? Maybe your experience is very limited?

 

[Banchory Buddha]

Aha. I had briefly forgotten that you speak for everybody.

Ah, I'd forgotten you can't read.

"Rest of us", would seem to suggest *not* "everybody" would it not?

You are the one that made the sweeping claim that isn't correct

 

[AussieKB]

Isolated results cherry-picked to support a deeply entrenched opinion are not particularly useful, especially when they come with no detail or context.
For all we know, this could have been a comp for 20+ handicappers and one of the lowest in the field won; or perhaps third place was a scratch golfer with 41 points who missed out on countback.

GA's latest analysis covering the whole of Australia would be useful if you have it.

FYI 14 single figure golfers, lowest was 2 handicap.

GA don't put out much info these days, I wonder why ?

Today I played and the leading score so far is 43 points, 23 handicap, make what ever you want of it.

 

[PaulMdj]

Low single figures don’t get in scratch comps nowadays there’s so many vanity caps keeping them out who can’t break 80 it’s a joke.
WHS has created problems at both ends of the spectrum.

So if you don’t play club comps that’s it you don’t play any comps.

If they are kept out by vanity caps then that’s fellow single figure guys cheating! Or is that WHS fault as well?

 

[PaulMdj]

Perhaps but it's the way some clubs still operate and we all have a choice which club we want to join. That's the joy of a private club.

Do you have 12 year old lads off 30 playing in your Saturday competitions?

Did you read my post?
No under 16’s unless playing with family member!

Any Club still treating kids like 2nd class citizens is sad.

 

[Backache]

If they are kept out by vanity caps then that’s fellow single figure guys cheating! Or is that WHS fault as well?

Er I think a lot of the criticism of the WHS is that it allows handicap manipulation more readily both upwards and downwards.

 

[Backache]

Did you read my post?
No under 16’s unless playing with family member!

Any Club still treating kids like 2nd class citizens is sad.

Most clubs they are treated differently they pay a lot less and don't have açcess to the same tee times. They also have access to reduced price lessons.

 

[IanMac]

Did you read my post?
No under 16’s unless playing with family member!

Any Club still treating kids like 2nd class citizens is sad.

Very much not second class citizens. Well looked after as anyone who has come through our junior section would agree. I don't think our club is alone in having stages for juniors. You can join at the age of 10. Are we discriminating against younger ones?

Quite frankly the idea of all juniors being able to play in all competitions is ridiculous.

 

[Backache]

At our club adults are not allowed to enter junior competitions.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Quite frankly the idea of all juniors being able to play in all competitions is ridiculous.

Why? All juniors, perhaps not, but if they have an acceptable handicap off medal tees then I don't see any reason to bar them. My son was off 18 at 14, not exceptional, no boast there. He was playing comps with me on a Saturday, my handicap at the time was 20, more than his. Why should he be blocked from playing in the comps?

 

[Lord Tyrion]

At our club adults are not allowed to enter junior competitions.

Sorry, that's pathetic. Would you like to enter? Seriously? Come on.

 

[IanMac]

Why? All juniors, perhaps not, but if they have an acceptable handicap off medal tees then I don't see any reason to bar them. My son was off 18 at 14, not exceptional, no boast there. He was playing comps with me on a Saturday, my handicap at the time was 20, more than his. Why should he be blocked from playing in the comps?

You'll see from an earlier post that juniors are allowed to play in many adult competitions if they are either 15 or have a category 2 handicap. Your son off 18 at age 14 wouldn't make our cut off until his next birthday. If he's 18 at age 14 he's a probably a decent talent and will no doubt get much better quickly. He's at that age when improvement often comes naturally. I think that's why we have the age 15 cut off.

You're making it sound like they'd want to play in our adult competitions but that's not the case. They have a whole host of trophies to play for as a junior.