Official WHS Survey

[rulefan]

I did the survey, and was chatting at pre match lunch with a fellow team vet who travels, and plays, in the lower handicap end of the game. We both filled in the survey with plenty of negative comments. He didn't like people putting in lots of "vanity cards" with low scores when it's obvious that they really can't play to their handicap. Also, players putting in a high number of high scores so that their handicaps are blatantly false so that they can win at other clubs opens.

And this is bolstered (not caused) by inactive, incompetent or non-existent handicap committees not doing their job.

 

[Maninblack4612]

It facilitates the wrong behaviours.

Arrived at the course yesterday. Blowing a gale. Ooh, says my buddy. I'll put a GP card in as I need to get a few back next month's Opens!!

He didn't break 100. Most of his gp cards are over 100. He's broken 90 in virtually every Open Comp he's played this year. Maybe he tries harder.

And this is a fault in the system. A course in a gale is more than one or two shots harder than it is in calm conditions.

 

[rulefan]

And this is a fault in the system. A course in a gale is more than one or two shots harder than it is in calm conditions.

But how would you fix the fault?

 

[Steve Wilkes]

And this is a fault in the system. A course in a gale is more than one or two shots harder than it is in calm conditions.

The R&A should have an employee at every course with a Thermometer, Barometer & a Wind Sock and of course a Watch so the PCC can be adjusted to when at time you played

 

[D-S]

You do have to wonder how the iGolf Handicap Committee manage their 46,000 plus members. How do they scrutinise possible handicap manipulation?
There is no way they can trawl through all GP scores submitted. Do they have programmes that allow them to highlight individuals? If so, could they make these available to Committees to make their job easier?
If they don’t scrutinise this maybe the role of the Committee is not as important as we all think and that if you have a non existent committee, who cares?

 

[clubchamp98]

It facilitates the wrong behaviours.

Arrived at the course yesterday. Blowing a gale. Ooh, says my buddy. I'll put a GP card in as I need to get a few back next month's Opens!!

He didn't break 100. Most of his gp cards are over 100. He's broken 90 in virtually every Open Comp he's played this year. Maybe he tries harder.

Problem is he isn’t doing anything wrong under this system.

But could be viewed as manipulation by others.
Especially when he told you his intention.
But WHS facilitates this.

 

[clubchamp98]

The R&A should have an employee at every course with a Thermometer, Barometer & a Wind Sock and of course a Watch so the PCC can be adjusted to when at time you played

Just an app would do.

 

[Maninblack4612]

But how would you fix the fault?

Add more shots to the PCC in difficult conditions. In our club championship the other week only 7 people payed to their handicap. The PCC was plus 1.

 

[clubchamp98]

Add more shots to the PCC in difficult conditions. In our club championship the other week only 7 people payed to their handicap. The PCC was plus 1.

In our premier comp for low men around Lancashire off scratch not one played to handicap.
In fact the winner who shot only 1 under for 36 holes was in effect 9 over his handicap of +5.

But the week before the comp the course was rerated down from 129 to 120.
The members find this rather strange.

 

[chrisd]

And this is bolstered (not caused) by inactive, incompetent or non-existent handicap committees not doing their job.

Yes, you're probably right, but I think a lot of golfers are now feeling pressured to play everything with a card in their hand where we would rather put cards in for comps only. It was said by many when the new system was due to come in that it'd be like America where we would have to submit a card for every round, when they start guessing what you would have scored if you walked in after 13 holes because it was, getting dark/peeing down/urgent phone call, then it's all going too far for me, as is being handicapped for a 4bbb score if you score well on too many holes in what is an entirely different game than as a single golfer in a medal where the pressure is wholly different

 

[clubchamp98]

And this is bolstered (not caused) by inactive, incompetent or non-existent handicap committees not doing their job.

This is probably true.
But those Committees existed under the old system.
Then the powers that be introduced a system that relied on said committees to police it.

 

[IanM]

But how would you fix the fault?

Stop folk putting in a card in "social" rounds.

Although some folk don't accept that multiple forms of golf exist

Handicap committees could also delete some cards if they had the required resources/capability and/or guts, or information to do do. In real life it'll rarely happen.

 

[abjectplop]

Add more shots to the PCC in difficult conditions. In our club championship the other week only 7 people payed to their handicap. The PCC was plus 1.

They should just revert the PCC to the same calculation as the CSS was.....I always thought that worked well, especially with reductions only on the wildest of days.

 

[2blue]

It facilitates the wrong behaviours.

Arrived at the course yesterday. Blowing a gale. Ooh, says my buddy. I'll put a GP card in as I need to get a few back next month's Opens!!

He didn't break 100. Most of his gp cards are over 100. He's broken 90 in virtually every Open Comp he's played this year. Maybe he tries harder.

Whilst I dont appreciate his comment I do believe that as we play golf in all sorts of conditions we need our h/cap to reflect that. I remember in the old system low single figure guys , in bad weather, wouldn't risk getting 0.1 back by entering the Comp.
Also how in their Scratch events many who were out of it would NR causing it to go reductions only....... nowt wrong with that Eh?? Yeah that perfect system we used to have.... hahaha

 

[rulefan]

This is probably true.
But those Committees existed under the old system.
Then the powers that be introduced a system that relied on said committees to police it.

The UHS also required the committee to police it. But Supplementary Scores had only just been introduced so players hadn't yet seen the opportunity.

 

[Voyager EMH]

In our premier comp for low men around Lancashire off scratch not one played to handicap.
In fact the winner who shot only 1 under for 36 holes was in effect 9 over his handicap of +5.

But the week before the comp the course was rerated down from 129 to 120.
The members find this rather strange.

The Slope Rating can not be changed arbitrarily. There has to be a change to the Course Rating and/or Bogey Rating.
The Slope Rating represents the difference between Course Rating and Bogey Rating.

In the case you mention, it might have been the Course Rating that was increased, but Bogey Rating remaining the same.
This would result in a lower Slope Rating, as the difference between them is narrowed.

 

[mikejohnchapman]

Done - be interesting to see the feedback.

 

[wjemather]

Add more shots to the PCC in difficult conditions. In our club championship the other week only 7 people payed to their handicap. The PCC was plus 1.

Average scores are around 3-4 over handicap. Need to look at all scores, not just the comp and the proportion of players within about 3 of that average, rather than the proportion beating their handicap.

 

[wjemather]

In our premier comp for low men around Lancashire off scratch not one played to handicap.
In fact the winner who shot only 1 under for 36 holes was in effect 9 over his handicap of +5.

But the week before the comp the course was rerated down from 129 to 120.
The members find this rather strange.

So, as we covered in another thread, it's been rated less relatively difficult for higher handicaps, not easier for elite players. Slope is of minimal relevance to elite golfers and your Course Rating hasn't changed - in other words, the absolute difficulty is rated the same as it was.

 

[rulefan]

But the week before the comp the course was rerated down from 129 to 120.
The members find this rather strange.

They would, if they have also confused Course Rating with Slope
129 or 130 will be the Slope nit the Course Rating.