Official WHS Survey

[IanM]

It doesn't need extra time just a demonstration of and reputation for diligence.

Therein lies the problem. Some clubs are all over it, some do little if anything, and everyone else is somewhere in the middle.

If you implement something on an assumption of widespread diligence, you are often left disappointed

 

[Banchory Buddha]

It doesn't need extra time just a demonstration of and reputation for diligence.

Both things cannot be true, and more to the point, how do OpenPlay members get monitored?

 

[Dunesman]

Is not the purpose of the handicap system that people of different abilities can compete against each other ?
I understand this to be the case.

Does it not then follow that scores for determining and modifying a handicap should be cards returned from playing competitions ?

 

[IanM]

Does it not then follow that scores for determining and modifying a handicap should be cards returned from playing competitions ?

Who knows? That used to be the case...then with the app there was an encouragement to put in general play scores for handicap.

Some people do so every time they played, some never do it, some folk do it to suit their purposes and break the rules.

One thing is sure. It's got messier!

 

[rulefan]

Both things cannot be true, and more to the point, how do OpenPlay members get monitored?

The h'cap c'ee has always run a tight ship. Tee booking and IT pre WHS has made a major contribution to the workload. Tee number of c'ee members has reduced and they only meet as and when required. Unscheduled h'cap adjustments are done on the run by phone or email. All general play scores are predeclared and booked in the software. They are monitored in much the same way as Supplementary Scores were (ie return card to pro). We don't use the EG app.

 

[D-S]

All general play scores are predeclared and booked in the software. They are monitored in much the same way as Supplementary Scores were. We don't use the EG app.

I assume you monitor the GP scores entered on the EG App played on your course by visitors?

 

[rulefan]

I assume you monitor the GP scores entered on the EG App played on your course by visitors?

I don't know enough about the EG app to know if we would be aware of its use. But aren't those scores the responsibility of the players' clubs?

 

[IanMac]

The h'cap c'ee has always run a tight ship. Tee booking and IT pre WHS has made a major contribution to the workload. Tee number of c'ee members has reduced and they only meet as and when required. Unscheduled h'cap adjustments are done on the run by phone or email. All general play scores are predeclared and booked in the software. They are monitored in much the same way as Supplementary Scores were (ie return card to pro). We don't use the EG app.

How can you prevent general play scores being entered on the app? You may not use the app but you cannot stop other members from doing so, can you?

 

[IanMac]

Who knows? That used to be the case...then with the app there was an encouragement to put in general play scores for handicap.

Some people do so every time they played, some never do it, some folk do it to suit their purposes and break the rules.

One thing is sure. It's got messier!

I put in a few GP scores for a while but it's a hassle. Club members generally don't play 18, or even 9, holes with a view to holing out on every hole. We play matches, often 4bbb, and we often don't play the full 18. If someone announces, on the 1st tee, that they are doing a score we laugh.

And if they do it more than once they don't play with us again.

 

[rulefan]

How can you prevent general play scores being entered on the app? You may not use the app but you cannot stop other members from doing so, can you?

Pre declaring and post return of cards prevents members from using the EG app to update handicap records.

 

[IanMac]

Pre declaring and post return of cards prevents members from using the EG app to update handicap records.

Here in Ireland our Golf Ireland app requires you to enable location services so it can tell where you are when you select a course and tee prior to teeing off. You then submit your score at least, I think 3, hours later and select an attester. Hopefully that attester has played with you but I'm not sure if that can be proven. Anyway it's not foolproof but has some protection.

Just to add, do people really think that everyone is trying hard when they play a competition round nowadays? I'm pretty sure there are those who use competitions to grow their handicap.

 

[IanM]

Pre declaring and post return of cards prevents members from using the EG app to update handicap records.

If that's how the club operate. My home club doesn't ask for return of cards.

I'm certain not every card is pre declared either. All you have to do is be in the required proximity at the required times.

All depends on how seriously folk apply the regs. Some do, some don't

 

[Banchory Buddha]

Pre declaring and post return of cards prevents members from using the EG app to update handicap records.

How? Isn't it dotgolf as well? You've got to pre-declare in Scotland, and that's the master record isn't it? Third party apps aren't updating your handicaps, they're transfering your scores to England golf

 

[2blue]

I put in a few GP scores for a while but it's a hassle. Club members generally don't play 18, or even 9, holes with a view to holing out on every hole. We play matches, often 4bbb, and we often don't play the full 18. If someone announces, on the 1st tee, that they are doing a score we laugh.

And if they do it more than once they don't play with us again.

Completely opposite way around at our place & we'd be wondering what it is you're trying to hide!

 

[clubchamp98]

No.
One Round Pots/Trophys would be majors or board comps in England.
None of this is matchplay.
We have 14 + handicaps.
We have another 59 that would be old stylee Cat 1 of 5.4 or less

Not a single round, even multi-round medals has been won by what would be a UHS category one. We average +/- 150 entrants, category 3 makes up on average 20% of the field

Of those in single figures, the two 6 handicap winners were guys who'd quickly bounced from 3 & 4 respectively to 6, and are now back down. As per earlier in the thread, form is temporary, underlying skill is always there

Below is the actual analysis I've just done, hopefully old know-it-all has better figures than me?

View attachment 55261

I think this backs up what’s happened at mine.
It’s not very high handicaps that are the problem but established mid cap golfers playing the system and cleaning up with dodgy caps.

 

[D-S]

I don't know enough about the EG app to know if we would be aware of its use. But aren't those scores the responsibility of the players' clubs?

No, how would the player’s club know if the attester was present on the day? Only the club itself has this information.
As mentioned earlier on this thread we had 3 instances this week alone of visitors entering GP scores on the EG App on our course with attesters not present - we informed the clubs so they can fulfil their role and take educative is disciplinary action as necessary.
Two weeks ago we had an iGolfer putting a card in despite not being present - we informed iGolf.
I suggest your committee pay attention to the Score Listing by Day report so they can be part of WHS as a whole.

 

[IanMac]

No, how would the player’s club know if the attester was present on the day? Only the club itself has this information.
As mentioned earlier on this thread we had 3 instances this week alone of visitors entering GP scores on the EG App on our course with attesters not present - we informed the clubs so they can fulfil their role and take educative is disciplinary action as necessary.
Two weeks ago we had an iGolfer putting a card in despite not being present - we informed iGolf.
I suggest your committee pay attention to the Score Listing by Day report so they can be part of WHS as a whole.

How does the club have this information? It's not possible for a club to know everything about who's playing and when and therefore not its responsibility.

I can take a visitor out on my course and, yes, the club will know that I signed him in but they don't need to know who else was playing if there are a couple more members with me. It's not 1984.

 

[Imurg]

How does the club have this information? It's not possible for a club to know everything about who's playing and when and therefore not its responsibility.

I can take a visitor out on my course and, yes, the club will know that I signed him in but they don't need to know who else was playing if there are a couple more members with me. It's not 1984.

A lot of clubs have a full time booking system so they know how much traffic they get and when the busy and slack times are.
We don't, for the most part, as we just turn up and play 95% of the time...
No way for the club to know who plays when.....

 

[IanMac]

Basically there is no way to police GP rounds outside introducing an Orwellian society.

 

[nickjdavis]

Just to add, do people really think that everyone is trying hard when they play a competition round nowadays? I'm pretty sure there are those who use competitions to grow their hahandicap.

I think I've responded in kind to a similar statement earlier in this thread. I know of nobody, absolutely nobody, who has willingly paid over their comp entry fee and then gone and played, with the intention of not trying to play their best golf or even, as is being insinuated, actively plays badly.