Official WHS Survey

[badgergm]

It really is quite amazing that the rest of the world has been for some time & still is, managing with this system but our UK Trad golfers want to turn the clock back. Better to just look to make changes to their Trophy Comps so that things work.

Well if the problem with the old system was a slight bias to low handicappers then maybe that could have been solved by making those type of changes rather than change the whole system?
Or amexnd the current system by different or more flexible handicap allowances?

 

[2blue]

Well if the problem with the old system was a slight bias to low handicappers then maybe that could have been solved by making those type of changes rather than change the whole system?
Or amexnd the current system by different or more flexible handicap allowances?

We were massively in the minority with the UHS..... just the UK & much of the Commonwealth against an alternative approach that was successfully working in the rest of the world. It has produced the usual question of who is 'out of step'

 

[wjemather]

Well if the problem with the old system was a slight bias to low handicappers then maybe that could have been solved by making those type of changes rather than change the whole system?
Or amexnd the current system by different or more flexible handicap allowances?

The old system was antiquated, inflexible and had more problems than just the one of significantly advantaging low handicappers.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Strikes me that the main problem with WHS is simply that there are too many golfers whose ego and/or greed leads them to manipulate and cheat both the system and other golfers. And once someone get’s used to cheating and getting away with it they’ll likely continue regardless of the system.

But that’s society today. For many it’s about finding what they can get away to cheat the system in order to satisfy their own needs and greed.

 

[rulie]

Strikes me that the main problem with WHS is simply that there are too many golfers whose ego and/or greed leads them to manipulate and cheat both the system and other golfers. And once someone get’s used to cheating and getting away with it they’ll likely continue regardless of the system.

But that’s society today. For many it’s about finding what they can get away to cheat the system in order to satisfy their own needs and greed.

Are you getting political now?

 

[rulie]

It's usual that any system that is open to abuse will be abused.

 

[Deleted member 36483]

We were massively in the minority with the UHS..... just the UK & much of the Commonwealth against an alternative approach that was successfully working in the rest of the world. It has produced the usual question of who is 'out of step'

Has it been working in the rest of the world? As far as I understand it the WHS is not exactly the same as what the rest of the world was using. At the very least the 8 from 20 is different. Americans used to come to play at my course with their very low handicaps that made them look a bit daft when they couldn't break 90. Now we can see why.

Also, was it working in countries where you can maybe play 12 months of the year but in very different conditions and often without being able to post a score for 5 months of it? Maybe something like WHS works in Florida, all year golf, or Canada, no golf for 6 months, but UK golf is just not the same as these places.

 

[AussieKB]

Just played 4 days of golf on Perth W.A. courses with men from Country Courses, happens every year where the Country Men Players are offered the chance to play in the City, 4 games for $80 (40 pounds) at various courses, a great deal.

Did not meet one single figure golfer who likes our version of the Handicap System.

 

[Deleted member 30522]

We were massively in the minority with the UHS..... just the UK & much of the Commonwealth against an alternative approach that was successfully working in the rest of the world. It has produced the usual question of who is 'out of step'

How could it have been working anywhere when it didn't exist? The US system was even worse than this.

Just because something is the minority, it doesn't make it wrong

 

[Deleted member 30522]

Amazing.
If a body like Golf Ireland can run their competitions this way, why can’t golf clubs run their comps this way?
The use of low HI effectively means that the system is much more oriented towards a player’s potential rather than current form.

Which is of course why WHS has gone so badly wrong, they've tried to make it reflect form, which is ridiculous, if someone has played off four, and is now off seven, they'll have a big round one day, form is temporary, practice will get him back to that four (age/injury notwithstanding).

Low index to me sounds like the perfect solution.

 

[wjemather]

Has it been working in the rest of the world? As far as I understand it the WHS is not exactly the same as what the rest of the world was using. At the very least the 8 from 20 is different. Americans used to come to play at my course with their very low handicaps that made them look a bit daft when they couldn't break 90. Now we can see why.

Also, was it working in countries where you can maybe play 12 months of the year but in very different conditions and often without being able to post a score for 5 months of it? Maybe something like WHS works in Florida, all year golf, or Canada, no golf for 6 months, but UK golf is just not the same as these places.

WHS is the same everywhere but for a handful of options (e.g. authorised formats) that can be selected to best fit how golf is played in any given jurisdiction; best 8 from 20 is not one of those options.

Submitting scores throughout the winter happened long before WHS was even dreamed of. No-one ever complained about it then, but now people hear about clubs being encouraged to facilitate scores for handicapping all year round if they can, all of a sudden it's a problem.

 

[D-S]

Which is of course why WHS has gone so badly wrong, they've tried to make it reflect form, which is ridiculous, if someone has played off four, and is now off seven, they'll have a big round one day, form is temporary, practice will get him back to that four (age/injury notwithstanding).

Low index to me sounds like the perfect solution.

I would assume there will be a lot of pressure on club committees in Ireland to introduce Low Handicap Index and even the other measures Golf Ireland will use for their own club competitions.

This is a strange crack in the system from a key stakeholder in CONGU and WHS.

 

[rulefan]

Just played 4 days of golf on Perth W.A. courses with men from Country Courses, happens every year where the Country Men Players are offered the chance to play in the City, 4 games for $80 (40 pounds) at various courses, a great deal.

Did not meet one single figure golfer who likes our version of the Handicap System.

How do they know? How often do they actually play under 'our' system.

Just what are the differences apart from the merging of CH & PH to form the DH?

 

[Deleted member 30522]

How do they know? How often do they actually play under 'our' system.

Just what are the differences apart from the merging of CH & PH to form the DH?

Seriously that's what you took from Aussie's post?

He's saying they think WHS is pants. They know this because it's their opinion

 

[Deleted member 36483]

Just played 4 days of golf on Perth W.A. courses with men from Country Courses, happens every year where the Country Men Players are offered the chance to play in the City, 4 games for $80 (40 pounds) at various courses, a great deal.

Did not meet one single figure golfer who likes our version of the Handicap System.

What do you mean by OUR version? If you mean the previous system then why don't they like it?

 

[Voyager EMH]

How do they know? How often do they actually play under 'our' system.

Just what are the differences apart from the merging of CH & PH to form the DH?

I wouldn't call it "merging".
They do not "name" CH as a thing.
They do not use nett double bogey limit for calculating SD.
They use stableford points to calculate SD - and they use a 93% calculation for the handicap that the stableford points are scored from.

That is why I find people in the UK quoting their stableford points from a 100% allowance as very odd. This is a big difference between UK and Australia.
Australia do not have a "sometimes use 95% and sometimes don't use 95%" for calculating stableford points as the culture in UK appears to be.
They always use 93% in Australia - always!

 

[AussieKB]

What do you mean by OUR version? If you mean the previous system then why don't they like it?

Our version of WHS.....we have tweaked it just like a lot of other countries, so it is not a World HS by any definition.

 

[wjemather]

I wouldn't call it "merging".
They do not "name" CH as a thing.
They do not use nett double bogey limit for calculating SD.
They use stableford points to calculate SD - and they use a 93% calculation for the handicap that the stableford points are scored from.

Nett double bogey adjustments and Stableford adjustments are the same thing.

 

[Backache]

The old system was antiquated, inflexible and had more problems than just the one of significantly advantaging low handicappers.

Does antiquated mean anything more than something older that someone has a personal dislike for.
Is walking on a golf course rather than taking a cart antiquated?

 

[wjemather]

Does antiquated mean anything more than something older that someone has a personal dislike for.

No, it means it was outdated and made obsolete by advances in technology, data analysis, etc.
It was a relic from a pre-internet world when everything had to be done locally; a simple system designed to be administered manually without the aid of technology (except perhaps a calculator).