Arthur Wedge
Well-known member
“Unfortunately it is the users abusing the system that are spoiling it.”
Which is the statement I was agreeing with
Official WHS Survey
- Thread starter Banchory Buddha
- Start date
Which is the statement I was agreeing with
PaulMdj
Well-known member
Did you miss the part of the users abusing it!
When somebody drink drives, do we blame the Car or the driver?
wjemather
Well-known member
You're making my point for me.
People here are blaming the system when what they actually have an issue with is some of the people using it.
Arthur Wedge
Well-known member
The app is part of the system
The handicap allowances for some team games is part of the system
The way the 8 out 20 is part of the systems
And it’s all open to abuse
D
Deleted member 36483
Guest
You say that with such conviction. And yet so many on here wouldn't agree. If everyone who played golf was statistically likely to try equally on every shot they played and the weather conditions were roughly the same for everyone on every casual round and everyone was fair-minded and we got to put in cards 12 months of the year and everyone practiced the same amount and everyone played 1.5 rounds per week on average then, yes, it might just work.
It's a system designed by statisticians, probably on the spectrum, who have no real club golf experience.
wjemather
Well-known member
Incorrect. The app is only a means of accessing the system. And are you really blaming the app for the behaviour of the people using it?
Allowances and calculations are part of the system.
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Arthur Wedge
Well-known member
D-S
Well-known member
For the system to work correctly it requires careful oversight from a diligent, knowledgeable , committed handicap committee with good communication and educational skills. If every club had one of these then it should/would work very well.
Unfortunately this is not the case.
Unfortunately this is not the case.
D
Deleted member 36483
Guest
That might be the case within a particular club but there needs to be wider trust between clubs. Here in Ireland our union, or whatever it's called now, has decreed that your interclub competition handicap is your lowest index from the previous calendar year and you must have played at least 4 competitions although they don't have to score in your top 8 in 20.
So sticking plasters already.
wjemather
Well-known member
The bit in bold has been a problem from the top down. The (apparent) failure of initial and subsequent education (imo largely due to overloading with unnecessary calculations and convoluted cartoons rather than focusing on a few simple basic fundamentals, and player responsibilities) is a big hurdle to overcome.
wjemather
Well-known member
Can you link to this policy please?
D
Deleted member 36483
Guest
Additional eligibility criteria for Inter-Club competitions in 2025
In 2025, Golf Ireland will introduce two new elements to the Handicap eligibility criteria for most inter-club competitions.
www.golfireland.ie
That's the latest add-on mentioning the 4 competition cards. Let me see if I can find the lowest last year index which has been in place for at least two seasons.
D
Deleted member 36483
Guest
Additional eligibility criteria for Inter-Club competitions in 2025
In 2025, Golf Ireland will introduce two new elements to the Handicap eligibility criteria for most inter-club competitions.
That's the latest add-on mentioning the 4 competition cards. Let me see if I can find the lowest last year index which has been in place for at least two seasons.
There's the full policy before the additional stuff. I used to play junior cup and Jimmy Bruen but our teams are all over the place with people dropping in and out of eligibility on a yearly basis. Other clubs seem better at keeping their teams together, I wonder how?
abjectplop
Hacker
Interesting read that. If that's the route individual unions are going down, you would think the R&A/USGA are going to have to address it in some way, or you could end up with a country creating their own handicap systems and binning WHS altogether!
PaulMdj
Well-known member
Good, I’ve got very few issues with the system, but it isn’t perfect.
D-S
Well-known member
This looks like the Golf Ireland policy, cut from IanMac’s link.
“The outcome of this is that from 2025, a range of factors will be included in the calculation of the player’s eligibility handicap index. This will apply to competitions where players have traditionally used their lowest Handicap Index for the purposes of both eligibility and playing handicap. For the vast majority (an estimated 98.4%), players will continue to use the previous criteria of lowest HI in the previous calendar year. “
To me this looks as if you just use your Low Handicap Index, which shows a huge mistrust of perhaps not the system itself but the administration of it by the clubs. They look simply not to believe player’s WHS real handicaps. Quite amazing from one of the CONGU members.
“The outcome of this is that from 2025, a range of factors will be included in the calculation of the player’s eligibility handicap index. This will apply to competitions where players have traditionally used their lowest Handicap Index for the purposes of both eligibility and playing handicap. For the vast majority (an estimated 98.4%), players will continue to use the previous criteria of lowest HI in the previous calendar year. “
To me this looks as if you just use your Low Handicap Index, which shows a huge mistrust of perhaps not the system itself but the administration of it by the clubs. They look simply not to believe player’s WHS real handicaps. Quite amazing from one of the CONGU members.
D
Deleted member 36483
Guest
Absolutely. And it's obvious to anyone who plays, and has played, interclub competitions over here. There were always a few clubs where the jury was out on their handicaps, i.e. they seemed to be very competitive every year. Now it's a free-for-all and the credibility of interclub competitions that involve handicap criteria is at an all time low. People like me just steer clear now.
We now often see junior cup players, lowest 2.5, appearing in Ulster cup teams, lowest allowed 11ish.
clubchamp98
Journeyman Pro
Basically there calling out the system and saying they don’t trust it.!
rulefan
Tour Winner
What have the WHS originators got to do with this?
D-S
Well-known member
Aren’t Golf Ireland, either directly or via CONGU, part of the originators?
I can’t believe the R&A and USGA didn’t consult closely with CONGU and its members before getting them to disband their system in favour of WHS.