Not lofting up?!

I think the low & forward C of G is the only recent TM gimmick to actually work. I combined my new SLDR with a low launching low spinning shaft and it produces a fairly high, soaring flight. The ball just seems to hang in the air. I have been using a 9º RBZ and have had to set the SLDR at 12º to get a similar flight. The backspin is coming out at between 2,000 & 2,500 RPM which, for me, is amazing. I find it very forgiving and am hitting it better than any other driver.

The stock shaft was launching too high and I was getting 15 yards less so it confirms what I believe that the shaft is as important, if not more so, than the head.
 
Not a fan of the TM SLDR. There again not a fan of any of the TM range for ages. There again, again, I'm not fan of too much adjustability in a driver either. Too tempting to tinker. Happy to stick with the minimalist adjustment +/ half a degree on my 10.5 G25 currently set at 10 degrees
 
These are my figures from my fitting

R1 - carry average 225 , launch angle 14 degree
BB Alpha - carry average 237 launch angle 12 degree
SLDR - carry average 248 launch angle 18 degree

The R1 was at 12 degree

The BB at 12.5

And SLDR at 14
 
From Tom Wishon about TM SLDR..

golfclubbldr wrote:Tom


I have been reading some about low spin heads with CG closer to the face. I have heard that the new recommended launch characteristics by an OEM company is 17* launch and 1700 spin. That would have to require a fairly substantial upward angle of attack with a normal driver.


What does this all mean to the average golfer that I fit, with zero to negative Angle of attack and out to in clubhead path? And how would you characterize the 919 THI head as far as low spin or high spin.


JOHN


Tom Wishon.
This recent commentary from Taylor Made about the 17* launch and 1700 rpms spin is chiefly done to try to help market their Loft Up campaign to go with selling more of their currently offered SLDR driver model.


Purely from a theoretical standpoint, it can be said that 17* launch with 1700 spin is an ideal combination for distance. But the key word is "theoretical". From a PRACTICAL standpoint, as you said in your post, such launch numbers would require a very upward angle of attack which is simply impossible for 99+% of all golfers to even come close to. Even in TrackMan's research, for 100mph to 120mph clubhead speeds with +5* upward A of A, around 1700 rpms is optimum for spin, but the optimum launch runs from 12.4* at 100mph down to 10.3* at 120mph. So to get all the way up to 17* launch and still maintain 1700 spin would require something closer to a +10* upward A of A. And that is quite impractical - so impractical that this is why you can look at this Taylor Made 17/1700 campaign and label it as marketing, purely marketing in trying to fool golfers into spending their money for this latest SLDR driver.


Give them 6-9 months and the SLDR will be history and something else will have taken its place in the marketing hype.


As to the 919, we consider it a medium spin driver, definitely not high. I'm going to do an article in the next ETECHreport about how way too many golfers have become OCD with spin numbers, WAY TOO MUCH.


Sadly way too many people hit shots on a launch monitor, see their spin is over 3000, ignore the launch angle and smash factor, and then obsess how to get their spin under 3000 to be like the tour players have. This is SO WRONG. First of all, only the Doppler Radar launch monitors can even read spin with decent accuracy. Second, 98% of the time the golfers are hitting RANGE BALLS when they get their spin number from an inaccurate launch monitor.


Launch angle is KING when it comes to optimizing a driver for any golfer. And launch angle is most influenced by the loft. So if you focus on finding the right loft that brings about the best launch angle for a golfer's clubhead speed and angle of attack, you simply do not worry about spin because if a golfer has a spin problem it will be caused far, far more by swing errors than by anything related to the equipment.
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Whilst I'm certainly not going to claim I'm even half as knowledgeable as Tom Wishon on club manufacturing and stats, there's some huge contradictions in that passage above.

He doesn't contest that 17 degree launch with 1700 spin would produce good numbers, if possible to hit them. He also says that for a golfer with a SS of 100mph (most of us on here) 12.4 degree loft is optimal.

So, if a higher loft can produce more distance when coupled with lower spin, and somewhere around 12.5 degrees is getting on towards the better end of things - why would you not loft up with the SLDR / JetSpeed which produce lower spin? Indeed LiverpoolPhil has gone up to a 14 degree driver (albeit with the settings altered) which mean he has to do less work to get closer to the optimal launch for that club.

To reiterate what somebody said before, lofting up wouldn't work on a club without the CoG low and forward. The high launch would be coupled with high spin which would lose distance and potentially worsen dispersion.
 
Gareth said:
High launch, low spin doesn't sound a good combination for a slow swing speed, I.E mine :mad:

I'm probably wrong though.
Click to expand...

Nope. It's fine!

TM's 17/1700 'goal' is pretty much optimum for all speeds. The practical issues of achieving that are a different problem though! Convincing folk to (throw away their ego and) use a higher loft Driver has always been a problem.

And the 'loft up' is more relevant to the SLDR. On other heads, the Launch/Spin combo may well mean that a lower loft head works best. Getting the balance right involves lots of other variables too.

For some reason though, I would have thought that a forward and high-ish CofG head - of high loft - would be the lowest spinning combo. Maybe that's coming in the SLDR 2! I expect that will be announced soon!
 
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Not what anyone that's tested the club (SLDR) out on any of the launch monitors have found to be true. Guessing it would be hard to find many that have been properly fitted, loft & shaft for their swing characteristics that haven't found an improvement.

Certainly too a good deal of Tour Pro's have found the launch conditions, impact conditions that the SLDR has given them to be a considerable improvement on their flight & distance without any adverse affect on accuracy. But sure it is the nature of all companies to seek improvement in their development of all their Clubs, so no doubt there will be something else coming along. AS next year there will be for Titleist driver range, & something will supersede the i25, g25, bio cell, etc.

No doubt even Wishon has to have some sort of 'hype', after all he slotted in the information about the 919, no doubt there'll be another Wishon club in development right now too.

Don't have any great preference or otherwise for TM, but they sure get a bad press, strange as the Clubs they make are as decent a Club as any other manufacturer. With the SLDR they have moved on the development of the driver somewhat this time too.
Maybes Tom said this before the stats on the SLDR on the performance on the USPGA tour came out, or the endorsement of many players other than the staffers using it, even if some have had theirs given a different paint job.

Tom is beginning to sound like an embittered man here to be completely honest. Some of the stuff he's says here sounds as bad as Patrick Reed's self declaration of being a 'top five' golfer!
 
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the_coach said:
Not what anyone that's tested the club (SLDR) out on any of the launch monitors have found to be true. Guessing it would be hard to find many that have been properly fitted, loft & shaft for their swing characteristics that haven't found an improvement.

Certainly too a good deal of Tour Pro's have found the launch conditions, impact conditions that the SLDR has given them to be a considerable improvement on their flight & distance without any adverse affect on accuracy. But sure it is the nature of all companies to seek improvement in their development of all their Clubs, so no doubt there will be something else coming along. AS next year there will be for Titleist driver range, & something will supersede the i25, g25, bio cell, etc.

No doubt even Wishon has to have some sort of 'hype', after all he slotted in the information about the 919, no doubt there'll be another Wishon club in development right now too.

Don't have any great preference or otherwise for TM, but they sure get a bad press, strange as the Clubs they make are as decent a Club as any other manufacturer. With the SLDR they have moved on the development of the driver somewhat this time too.
Maybes Tom said this before the stats on the SLDR on the performance on the USPGA tour came out, or the endorsement of many players other than the staffers using it, even if some have had theirs given a different paint job.

Tom is beginning to sound like an embittered man here to be completely honest. Some of the stuff he's says here sounds as bad as Patrick Reed's self declaration of being a 'top five' golfer!
Click to expand...

That comment has really rubbed folk your side of the pond up something rotten hasn't it?

During the commentary last night they going on about his comments ........ Repeatedly :mad:
 
CMAC said:
yes it was a SLDR- spin rates were ok-ish between 2300 and 4000, SS 103mph to 105mph, it was the launch that was as expected with a 10.5*
Click to expand...

Ahh ok, interesting. I guess it not for everyone, or not for everyone`s numbers. I am guessing you have a pretty good upward angle of attack. The spin is a little high for what TM want (17* 1700 rpm). Perhaps another head shaft combi would work out but I know not as I only know what I have read..
 
I've been thinking about having a fitting for an SLDR. I was on trackman yesterday having a lesson and with the driver (9.5* 913D2) I averaged 12.9 degrees of launch with 2,914rpm of spin with 108-109mph clubhead speed, I averaged 260.5 carry & 279.7 total. This was using range balls which the pro said spin more than a standard golf ball so I could expect a little more with a decent golf ball. I'd be interested to see if an SLDR could get me more distance, might have to book a fitting at some point in the near future.

The only thing is I'll probably have to wait a little while until the changes I'm working on become more natural as I didn't feel very comfortable with them, I think there might be bit more speed to come too once the changes do feel more natural.
 
adam6177 said:
The SLDR has taken my drives to a place I didn't think was possible....I swapped to the SLDR from the Nike Covert VRS and gained 20-30 yards of carry pretty much over night.

Last weekend I drove the ball over 270 yards on three separate occasions....to the point that I actually made people on the green in front (on a par 4) look around when my ball pitched (they were 318 yards away).

I was anti TM until I tried the SLDR.....
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Ditto!!

I have found that on the odd off day it isn't so forgiving but, man, it is a monster!!
 
I really, really want to try SLDR. I am intrigued as to the claims etc, but I can't really find anywhere local that will have the combinations and flight monitors to have a really good crack at the philosophy.
 
Wabinez said:
I really, really want to try SLDR. I am intrigued as to the claims etc, but I can't really find anywhere local that will have the combinations and flight monitors to have a really good crack at the philosophy.
Click to expand...


Where is your nearest AG ?
 
Norwich, about 30-odd miles away....I have just sent them an email to ask if they have a selection of heads etc that can be used, and if I can then use the indoor monitors to compare against my current driver
 
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