Non-Compliant Local Rule

[rulefan]

If eg you are taking relief from a path, the npcr will be pretty obvious. As will the 1cl arc. It would be very easy to determine if the ball is now obviously within the correct area or not.
The PL local rule was altered to be consistent with all other 'non replace' situations. In particular, when the distance in the row is generally 1cl rather than 6".

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Make sure the issue is raised with those in authority. Then it should be ok next year. Has your club got a handicap committee? If not, ask why.
Don't bother with past scores.

We do have a handicap committee and we are a well run club overall. I am certain that this is just a misunderstanding of the 2019 change and what ‘guidance’ means in the context of Model Local Rules. I have advised our Golf Manager - he drafts the LRs in collaboration with the appropriate committee; and our General Manager.

 

[rulefan]

We do have a handicap committee and we are a well run club overall. I am certain that this is just a misunderstanding of the 2019 change and what ‘guidance’ means in the context of Model Local Rules. I have advised our Golf Manager - he drafts the LRs in collaboration with the appropriate committee; and our General Manager.

Are you sure it wasn't just an oversight of the change?

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Are you sure it wasn't just an oversight of the change?

May well have been. But there’s also I think some misunderstanding about the Model Local Rule; the meaning of guidance; and flexibility afforded a club‘s committee around the MLR.

 

[rulefan]

May well have been. But there’s also I think some misunderstanding about the Model Local Rule; the meaning of guidance; and flexibility afforded a club‘s committee around the MLR.

Pretty common I guess

 

[rulie]

It does seems strange to be discussing this today (2023) when the requirement to mark the ball when doing lift, clean and place disappeared in 2019!

 

[salfordlad]

Can you pick your ball up, walk to your bag to clean it, then plonk it back down "somewhere" without marking its position?

Is this the case in all situations, taking an unplayable lie drop, preferred lies, etc...

Yes you can (assuming "plonking it" meets the "how to" obligation). There is no requirement to mark unless the ball is being replaced on the spot. BUT - if it proves that the place you play from does not comply with the requirements of the rules (eg outside the permitted relief area) then your actions must be assessed against Rule 1.3b(2) - did you exercise "reasonable judgment"? Meandering the countryside to your bag 20 metres away and returning and placing your ball when it is card-length preferred lies, for example, would likely fail this test and get a general penalty for playing from wrong place.

 

[salfordlad]

It does seems strange to be discussing this today (2023) when the requirement to mark the ball when doing lift, clean and place disappeared in 2019!

Indeed. But I'm still getting surprised (even in this last week) playing a decent course that still has pre-2019 references on the score card local rules.

 

[rulefan]

Indeed. But I'm still getting surprised (even in this last week) playing a decent course that still has pre-2019 references on the score card local rules.

Many clubs still have stocks of 'old' cards and don't wish to spend on new stock.

 

[jim8flog]

Many clubs still have stocks of 'old' cards and don't wish to spend on new stock.

Wow! 4 years on and still got old cards.

We just happened to have placed an order out of necessity 2 months before we new the final requirements for a card for the WHS ie around Oct November 2019 and I know we have had at least 2 more orders since.

Much more likely managers not checking their local rules etc on the card are up to date.

 

[D-S]

A good tip is to put your, correct, local rules onto the WHS portal. They will then be visible on the EG app for those entering scores via this method as some won’t necessarily be taking paper cards with them. Much easier to alter and keep up to date as well as to have all current LRs available rather than sometimes just posted on notice boards in the Clubhouse.

 

[salfordlad]

Many clubs still have stocks of 'old' cards and don't wish to spend on new stock.

I'm sure there are multiple reasons but my experience is different. My first hand experience is the folk that update/maintain the local rules are often not at the right place at the right time when the infrequent updated card order goes to the printer from a club person (eg the pro) - so the outdated document gets perpetuated in some clubs.

 

[rulefan]

A good tip is to put your, correct, local rules onto the WHS portal. They will then be visible on the EG app for those entering scores via this method as some won’t necessarily be taking paper cards with them. Much easier to alter and keep up to date as well as to have all current LRs available rather than sometimes just posted on notice boards in the Clubhouse.

I have now suggested it to our manager

 

[King Julian]

You have 2 separate but similar situations...in one you have to mark before lifting, in the other you don't.
The only difference is whether you're going to place or replace the ball.
It does make you wonder how many times these procedures get mixed up leading to penalties.
It's so unnecessary when all they have to do is say Mark your ball before you do anything with it.....
Don't forget there are copious numbers of golfers out there who barely have a grasp of the basic rules

King Julian hit a ball into the cacti just past the coconut tree, there was no chance King Julian was going to mark where that ball was.

 

[rulefan]

King Julian hit a ball into the cacti just past the coconut tree, there was no chance King Julian was going to mark where that ball was.

Why would he even consider marking it?

 

[louise_a]

I was browsing this thread and as it is that time of year when MLR E-3 is in for at my club, I was interested to read that you do not have to mark to position of the ball, anyway I went to read the MLR and it says the reference point for relief is the position of the ball. I was under the impression that you had to mark the reference point when taking relief, am I wrong in this assumption?

 

[salfordlad]

I was browsing this thread and as it is that time of year when MLR E-3 is in for at my club, I was interested to read that you do not have to mark to position of the ball, anyway I went to read the MLR and it says the reference point for relief is the position of the ball. I was under the impression that you had to mark the reference point when taking relief, am I wrong in this assumption?

Yes, from 2019 there has been no requirement to mark unless the ball is lifted from a spot where it needs to be replaced. See Rule 14.1a. However, it remains a good idea to mark, this helps ensure the player complies with the relief area limits, but it is not a requirement.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Given I raised the OP around our ‘placing relief Winter Rule’ of last winter, I note that in the email from my club of a couple of weeks ago notifying us of Winter Rules being in place, it quoted what Surrey County have provided (to all clubs I assume). This gives MLR E-3 and hence of course there is no mention of any need to mark ball position prior to lifting it.

 

[clubchamp98]

Not disputing the rule.
Whats the reason or logic behind not needing to mark your ball?
This must create a lot of misunderstanding at best Cheating at worst!

It would solve any dispute if you just marked it.

 

[Colin L]

Not disputing the rule.
Whats the reason or logic behind not needing to mark your ball?
This must create a lot of misunderstanding at best Cheating at worst!

It would solve any dispute if you just marked it.

Consistency. It is consistent with all other relief rules where the player has to drop or place his ball within a certain distance of the reference point. The Rules do not need to tell anyone how the distance is to be judged, measured or how to remember where the ball had been.