No Tees

[Doon frae Troon]

I quite liked Nick Faldo's idea of banning tees for pro competitions on shorter courses.
He is against lowering ball compressions to stop the big hitters dominating the sport.
Drivers limited to 10 degrees and stop use of the more lofted wedges was also something he said they should consider.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

All interesting stuff but none of it will happen. There's no appetite with those who run the game, the equipment and ball mfrs. Bigger and longer is the mantra.

I'm afraid that particular horse has bolted.

Might be interesting to see a DP Tour event take these on board and try it. More chance of it happening there than the PGA.

 

[Lucifer MorningStar]

Then we just reopen the debate of bifurcation and it’s just not going to happen. To much money will be lost as so many club members and fans want to play the same clubs, balls etc as the pro’s do. After all Staff players are the biggest advertising factor for all OEMs.

You can’t stop progress in any walk of life and nobody looking to earn a living in the game is going to want kit and equipment rolled back or R&D halted where marginal gains can equate to scores and pound notes.

Faldo is an absolute legend and one of my all time golfing heroes his technique and mental strength back in the day was flawless, I understand why he’s making these suggestions. As all ex pros and us as fans are entitled to opinions on how to make it better and fairer, but I agree with Lord T that horse bolted a long time ago.

The simplest way at the top level is to make the courses play harder. Narrow the fairways, grow the rough, choose courses that put a premium on accuracy and shot shaping Instead of always choosing TPC courses. Hardly any courses they play these days have good old fashioned dog legs or are set up to be plotted round instead of bomb and gouge on the stadium courses.

After all look at US Open set ups very rare to get very low scores there, even courses like Riviera rarely get torn apart not because of its length but because of its set up. But that’s just IMO.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

When you hear older players, like Faldo, Monty etc, they talk about shot shaping, placing a shot and so on. The modern game is first off about bombing the tee shot. After that they largely want a wedge to the green. The days of shaping have gone, it's not necessary as these guys go over corners, not around them.

Faldo's comments, which I understand, are like me wanting a big guy and a little guy upfront again in football, or a test opener who plays through the V for the first hour. It's the stuff of history I'm afraid.

 

[Lucifer MorningStar]

When you hear older players, like Faldo, Monty etc, they talk about shot shaping, placing a shot and so on. The modern game is first off about bombing the tee shot. After that they largely want a wedge to the green. The days of shaping have gone, it's not necessary as these guys go over corners, not around them.

Faldo's comments, which I understand, are like me wanting a big guy and a little guy upfront again in football, or a test opener who plays through the V for the first hour. It's the stuff of history I'm afraid.

Absolutely nailed it. All the people calling for rolling back kit, balls and talking about how the game used to be are Pro’s of a bygone era or club players over a certain age that remember the golf of the 70’s, 80’s and early 90’s. When a premium was on accuracy, shot shaping and controlling the flight of the ball.

It’s a bygone era where everyone played blades and smaller headed drivers on tighter courses. People need to accept where the game is at and move with the times it’s not going to roll back or stand still. Embrace the game and enjoy what we have.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Can’t see what no tees or limiting a driver to 10 degrees would achieve anyway

 

[Lucifer MorningStar]

Can’t see what no tees or limiting a driver to 10 degrees would achieve anyway

Absolutely nothing, a lot of players only use the driver when they want to bomb it anyway and they’ll find a way to reduce spin to get optimal launch anyway, no tees would be pointless as they’re so good with irons and the quality of the course would guarantee a perfect lie anyway

Certainly 2 of the oddest suggestions I’ve seen.

 

[timd77]

Loved Faldo as a player and some of his commentary is really insightful. However, he doesn’t half waffle some rubbish sometimes!

 

[Crow]

Absolutely nailed it. All the people calling for rolling back kit, balls and talking about how the game used to be are Pro’s of a bygone era or club players over a certain age that remember the golf of the 70’s, 80’s and early 90’s. When a premium was on accuracy, shot shaping and controlling the flight of the ball.

It’s a bygone era where everyone played blades and smaller headed drivers on tighter courses. People need to accept where the game is at and move with the times it’s not going to roll back or stand still. Embrace the game and enjoy what we have.

That's a bit of a dogmatic statement.

People have a right to choose what they want to play, not everybody wants to play (insert your own definition of modern golf) golf.
There's a small but growing number of golfers playing equipment from 70s, 80s and early 90s or earlier.

And on your point about not wanting bifurcation, it's already happened.
We don't play the same courses as professionals, we might in name but they're set up completely differently for a pro tournament, they're much longer, have narrower fairways, longer rough, faster greens, etc.
If it's happened with courses, why worry about equipment?

 

[Orikoru]

Loved Faldo as a player and some of his commentary is really insightful. However, he doesn’t half waffle some rubbish sometimes!

Yeah, this basically. Removing tees is a total non-starter, he must have realised that before he even finished saying it. No tees means no bombed drives, which means a lot less spectator interest ultimately.

I've got no problem with the distances they hit, but as I always say when this comes up, the answer for me is make some of the spectator areas out of bounds, which makes the area they have to hit into narrower and puts a bit more premium on accuracy rather than just smashing driver and not really caring where it goes.

 

[Lucifer MorningStar]

That's a bit of a dogmatic statement.

People have a right to choose what they want to play, not everybody wants to play (insert your own definition of modern golf) golf.
There's a small but growing number of golfers playing equipment from 70s, 80s and early 90s or earlier.

And on your point about not wanting bifurcation, it's already happened.
We don't play the same courses as professionals, we might in name but they're set up completely differently for a pro tournament, they're much longer, have narrower fairways, longer rough, faster greens, etc.
If it's happened with courses, why worry about equipment?

It’s not dogmatic at all. It’s a statement of fact about the modern game and there won’t be any roll back. It is also golfers of a certain age bracket that are calling for the game to return to bygone days.

My dad was the same complaining the games gone to far etc because all his heroes and favourites did things like shot shaping, controlling the flight etc.

People do need to accept the game has moved on and embrace it. It is then your choice and right to play old fashioned kit and equipment, or to play hickory events etc. more power to all those that choose to , I’m a massive fan of old blades, persimmon clubs and making the ball dance by shaping shots etc it’s what I grew up learning and still Practice now but that doesn’t mean I need to call for things to be rolled back.

Stating bifurcation has happened with courses is a load of rubbish. You and I can pay to play the majority of the courses the Pros do, we can play from the same tees but we would be stupid to think we can play it the same way as we’re not of that level so we play forward tees. You’re telling me you can’t go and play TOC, any open venue, Wentworth, Valderamma etc and it’s not the same course. Of course it is it’s just in a different condition depending on time of year. No different to our own courses making the set up a little harder for Club championships etc.

As I’ve said if you choose to play older equipment that is your choice! The game is as a matter of fact still going to move on whether you choose to or not!

 

[D-S]

I notice that there is also a massive rise in vinyl records and players due to the 'authenticity' and as well I read today that big cathode ray tube TVs are seeing a resurgence as they give 80s and 90s retro gamers a 'genuine' experience.

Maybe these are all somehow nostalgia linked?

 

[Mandofred]

As I’ve said if you choose to play older equipment that is your choice! The game is as a matter of fact still going to move on whether you choose to or not!

The question is.....ON to what? More distance? Less distance? Mow the grass a little longer on the fairways? Moving on doesn't necessarily mean hitting the ball longer. Plenty of sports have made rules to maintain control of results......javelin, motor racing, adding weight to horses, timing in things like basketball and baseball to keep things moving. For me...I kind of wonder why it's the length of a drive that is the interesting thing for the younger golf fan. Probably like having more explosions in movies.....that's what some people think makes a good movie. I don't mind a good explosion, but if that's all the movie is about (I'm looking at you Mission Impossible) it gets old pretty quick.

I don't watch more than a couple of minutes of golf.....too boring. I don't really care what the pro's do....I can't tell you who is on the Ryder cup teams.....they live in a different world than I do. I'm fine with the local club and what I'm using in equipment. If they were to change the rules on clubs/balls etc.....I adjust. They could make those changes, but there is too much money to lose I would think so they won't.

 

[Lucifer MorningStar]

The question is.....ON to what? More distance? Less distance? Mow the grass a little longer on the fairways? Moving on doesn't necessarily mean hitting the ball longer. Plenty of sports have made rules to maintain control of results......javelin, motor racing, adding weight to horses, timing in things like basketball and baseball to keep things moving. For me...I kind of wonder why it's the length of a drive that is the interesting thing for the younger golf fan. Probably like having more explosions in movies.....that's what some people think makes a good movie. I don't mind a good explosion, but if that's all the movie is about (I'm looking at you Mission Impossible) it gets old pretty quick.

I don't watch more than a couple of minutes of golf.....too boring. I don't really care what the pro's do....I can't tell you who is on the Ryder cup teams.....they live in a different world than I do. I'm fine with the local club and what I'm using in equipment. If they were to change the rules on clubs/balls etc.....I adjust. They could make those changes, but there is too much money to lose I would think so they won't.

I already said in my initial reply. You make the course harder same way they do with US Open, The Open, Riviera isn’t a bombers course but rarely gets super low scores due to pin positions, fairways set up, tree height takes out bombing over corners etc. it’s all there ready to happen but the powers that be just need to do it.

But I’ve never said I have the answers just that Bifurcation won’t Happen , players won’t accept rolling back and manufacturers make to much money to allow it. There plenty of options available and that’s starts with moving away from stadium type courses that are wide open

But again just my opinion

 

[Oops!]

(…)

You can’t stop progress in any walk of life and nobody looking to earn a living in the game is going to want kit and equipment rolled back or R&D halted where marginal gains can equate to scores and pound notes.

(…)

You may be right, but IMVHO, progress is not automatically synonymous with improvement. The best example is the America's Cup: Yes, the yachts currently in use are (many times!) faster, but they are no match for the old J-Classes like Shamrock, Enterprise, Endeavour and all the others!

 

[D-S]

You may be right, but IMVHO, progress is not automatically synonymous with improvement. The best example is the America's Cup: Yes, the yachts currently in use are (many times!) faster, but they are no match for the old J-Classes like Shamrock, Enterprise, Endeavour and all the others!

I have no knowledge whatsoever of yachting so could you explain ‘no match’ as you expressed it. I assume faster is not better?

 

[Mandofred]

I already said in my initial reply. You make the course harder same way they do with US Open, The Open, Riviera isn’t a bombers course but rarely gets super low scores due to pin positions, fairways set up, tree height takes out bombing over corners etc. it’s all there ready to happen but the powers that be just need to do it.

But I’ve never said I have the answers just that Bifurcation won’t Happen , players won’t accept rolling back and manufacturers make to much money to allow it. There plenty of options available and that’s starts with moving away from stadium type courses that are wide open

But again just my opinion

I agree with all this. My point was about your comment about the game "moving on". What does that mean? The game is changing....is just "change" moving on? Is longer hits moving on? If just "change" is moving on, then why not change the length of the ball? Yeah....I know....not likely to happen. IMO it is too much of hit to the male ego.

 

[Oops!]

I have no knowledge whatsoever of yachting so could you explain ‘no match’ as you expressed it. I assume faster is not better?

Well, that's a matter of taste: if you want speed at any price, foils are the only way to go. However, if you value aesthetics more, you'll prefer “classic” yachts. On YouTube and elsewhere on the internet, you can find numerous videos that allow you to compare the yachts. And the old J-Classes are definitely more beautiful to look at – which doesn't mean that I don't also greatly admire the technical development of foils, for example! It's just like so often in life: you don't have to do everything just because you can!

 

[irip]

I think the biggest problem isn’t how far the players can hit the ball now it’s that courses cannot be made longer due to lack of space.

It means that some of our favourite well known courses are becoming just to easy for the longer hitters.

St Andrews I would say being the prime example.

So if we cannot make courses longer I think to present a challenge then there needs to be more hazards in play

 

[Rlburnside]

As already mentioned the simplest answer is to make the courses harder for the pros.

No need to change clubs, balls etc.
They have to much is an advantage when driving wayward into spectators and getting good lies.