No British Masters for 2019

[Garush34]

Haven't checked so stand to be corrected but from the days I've been to I doubt the British Masters gets those numbers (less than half probably). And a fair percentage of the spectators get free admission (kids / sky subscribers etc)

Don't think this years has been mentioned yet, but last year at Close house they nearly had 70,000 people for the week. So I'd say you were correct and as you state a lot of those numbers will of been the free tickets via Sky etc.

 

[Grant85]

Haven't checked so stand to be corrected but from the days I've been to I doubt the British Masters gets those numbers (less than half probably). And a fair percentage of the spectators get free admission (kids / sky subscribers etc)

Yes - I don't doubt that. And probably 150,000 is more like the total for the whole week (I think this is not far off the numbers for the Irish Open this year).

My point being that 150,000 @ £30 per a ticket is £4,500,000... so if there really was that appetite to attend golf events and that kind of money to be made from ticket sales, then these events would take place with far more regularity and the sponsor chucking in a couple of million would be more like the icing on the cake rather than the necessity to have an event going ahead.

 

[davidy233]

Yes - I don't doubt that. And probably 150,000 is more like the total for the whole week (I think this is not far off the numbers for the Irish Open this year).

The Irish Open is an exception - they have had massive crowds last couple of years - I doubt any tournament outside the Open (Carnoustie got 172,000 this year) would get anywhere near that figure - probably less than half

 

[Garush34]

Yes - I don't doubt that. And probably 150,000 is more like the total for the whole week (I think this is not far off the numbers for the Irish Open this year).

My point being that 150,000 @ £30 per a ticket is £4,500,000... so if there really was that appetite to attend golf events and that kind of money to be made from ticket sales, then these events would take place with far more regularity and the sponsor chucking in a couple of million would be more like the icing on the cake rather than the necessity to have an event going ahead.

This issue with having these events more regularly is that people then say its fine I can go next month and watch and then the numbers go down. It happened a couple of years ago, when the Scottish Open, The Open, the Paul Lawrie Match play, Womens Scottish Open and the Womens British Open all happened within a 2 month span. What ended up happening is that the first couple events were well attended as they would be normally but the rest were then attended by die hards and lacked the numbers that you think are possible with more events. This lead to the Matchplay going to Germany and then eventually off the schedule.

The sponsors are needed to ensure the security of the event for a number of years, just like sky with the British masters is now likley going off the schedule, by your logic and based on last years numbers, they would have made £2,100,000 so clearly ticket sales alone is not enough.

 

[Sweep]

I really don’t understand the logic of thinking Sky having golf behind a pay wall is bad for golf when no-one else is going to show it anyway. Let’s face it, who else is going to bid other than other pay wall broadcasters? ITV? Channel 4? 5? Dave? Yesterday? Movies For Men?
The BBC aren’t interested. That’s obvious and rightly so. They have adapted to modern broadcasting which dictates sport is a big money industry and it’s ideally suited to pay wall and ppv companies. The BBC are not going to step in no matter how much we may want it to happen.
Seemingly, if golf on TV makes a difference to participation numbers, then Sky having golf is having a good effect.

If the British Masters is going to succeed it needs to be played in the summer. Seemingly that’s not possible because of the already busy schedule. So it could be argued that golf on TV and tournament sponsorship is in a very healthy state. It’s not like there is a shortage of events to cover.

In regard to the ET going to continental US, I really don’t think it is in anyone’s interest for the PGA Tour and ET to clash. There is only going to be one winner in that contest.

 

[Grant85]

The Irish Open is an exception - they have had massive crowds last couple of years - I doubt any tournament outside the Open (Carnoustie got 172,000 this year) would get anywhere near that figure - probably less than half

Big difference with Carnoustie is that most adults on the ground were paying £100 to £140 a ticket.

This would probably be triple the ticket price of the European Tour events.

The Scottish Open at Gullane... I got a Christmas present that was a box with 3 Pro v1s, 2 any day tickets for the Scottish Open, £20 voucher for food / drink and £30 voucher for merchandise. Total cost was £90. Albeit this was an advance ticket, but basically the ticket price is an incidental to get people on the ground.

 

[Garush34]

Big difference with Carnoustie is that most adults on the ground were paying £100 to £140 a ticket.

This would probably be triple the ticket price of the European Tour events.

The Scottish Open at Gullane... I got a Christmas present that was a box with 3 Pro v1s, 2 any day tickets for the Scottish Open, £20 voucher for food / drink and £30 voucher for merchandise. Total cost was £90. Albeit this was an advance ticket, but basically the ticket price is an incidental to get people on the ground.

Tickets for Carnoustie were not £100-£140, they were early bird from £60 and only £90 on the day with other prices in-between. But lets not let facts get in the way to fit the agenda.

Yeah it's more than regular European tour events but that's because it is not run by the European tour, its run by the R&A. They are going to charge more because it is a major and a premier event.

 

[Sweep]

You can’t compare The Open with the British Masters. To do so only clouds the debate. People come from across the world to see The Open. It is the world’s premier golfing event. It generates massive coverage and as such does not need a sponsor.

 

[SGC001]

As long as the punitive tax system operates in the uk it"ll be difficult to get top players in the event which would help with the tv....

 

[shortgame]

You can’t compare The Open with the British Masters. To do so only clouds the debate. People come from across the world to see The Open. It is the world’s premier golfing event. It generates massive coverage and as such does not need a sponsor.

Absolutely. As much as I enjoy the British Masters it's nothing compared to The Open.

Looking at the event at Close House with 70,000 visitors over the week - great turnout, great atmosphere etc but how many actually paid £30 to enter? Half?
Plenty of kids (free), Sky subscribers (free) etc. Many people would have gone for more than one day with the subsequent days discounted. Presumably some of that will have been on (free or heavily discounted) practice days.

Sure it was a great event, especially as it visited a different region but it's disingenuous to assume 70,000 x £30 = gate receipt.

Not sure how much gate receipt is required to break even but with the vagaries of the British weather hefty sponsorship is obviously required to make it worthwhile. Sadly.

 

[Grant85]

You can’t compare The Open with the British Masters. To do so only clouds the debate. People come from across the world to see The Open. It is the world’s premier golfing event. It generates massive coverage and as such does not need a sponsor.

No you can't - but for a lot of people, attending 1 golf tournament a year is enough. So if they get tickets for the Open, then they will be less bothered about other events.

 

[Garush34]

No you can't - but for a lot of people, attending 1 golf tournament a year is enough. So if they get tickets for the Open, then they will be less bothered about other events.

Maybe I'm missing something, but if spectator numbers are so important why are there not more events in the UK & Ireland?

But in England and Ireland, interest is high - elite players are involved in major tournaments and crowd numbers at an English or Irish event is good. Yet next season we will have 1 European Tour event in the Republic of Ireland (irish Open) and 1 in England (Wentworth). Not sure about the golf sixes. Also the Open will be in N. Ireland, but this is a one off - or maybe a once a decade at best.

So you may know something I don't, but if they knew that they would sell 150,000+ tickets for an event in the East of Ireland or the South East of England (which they probably would)... why are the tour not putting on more events and saying to the Trophee Hassan or the Fiji International... sorry lads, your events will have to move to early or late in the year... we have 150,000 people in GB & Ireland busting to pay £30 a day and buy beers at £6 a pop to watch Chris Wood & Paul Dunne go head to head for €400,000.

Your starting to contradict yourself now. 1 event is enough or the interest is high so get more events in the UK?

 

[Bunkermagnet]

Perhaps if they expanded the entrance field to more lower ranking players with a smaller purse you would still get a decent enough spectator number.
Sometimes giving lesser ranking more localised players a chance will bring in a more localised spectator number.

 

[Grant85]

Your starting to contradict yourself now. 1 event is enough or the interest is high so get more events in the UK?

'Interest is high' was in response to Liverpool Phil saying people wanted more tournaments to go and watch players.

I accepted that it is and they would get decent crowds, especially in the South East - but when you actually dig down, how many people are up for paying £30 for a ticket?

If there were enough people willing to pay for a ticket, then the events would barely require a sponsor and the British Masters could continue next year with the requirements for a sponsor much reduced.

 

[Garush34]

'Interest is high' was in response to Liverpool Phil saying people wanted more tournaments to go and watch players.

I accepted that it is and they would get decent crowds, especially in the South East - but when you actually dig down, how many people are up for paying £30 for a ticket?

If there were enough people willing to pay for a ticket, then the events would barely require a sponsor and the British Masters could continue next year with the requirements for a sponsor much reduced.

But that's never going to happen. The only way that would work is if you do a presale and then the event only goes ahead if enough tickets are sold, which clearly is not a good business model. That's why they need sponsors to ensure the life of a tournament for a certain number of years and work it around that way.

At the moment the European tour needs to get into the markets that they can use to attract new sponsors or show current sponsors what they can do, such as Aus with the super 6 tournament. Doing something different is what they are trying with Keith Pelley and in the main part it does seem to be working with the rolex series events etc.

 

[Grant85]

But that's never going to happen. The only way that would work is if you do a presale and then the event only goes ahead if enough tickets are sold, which clearly is not a good business model. That's why they need sponsors to ensure the life of a tournament for a certain number of years and work it around that way.

At the moment the European tour needs to get into the markets that they can use to attract new sponsors or show current sponsors what they can do, such as Aus with the super 6 tournament. Doing something different is what they are trying with Keith Pelley and in the main part it does seem to be working with the rolex series events etc.

I accept that the sponsor is a crucial element, but if you had a few million from ticket sales it would mean a sponsor wouldn't have to put quite as much cash in and there would likely be a greater number of companies able and willing to sponsor.

As it is the ticket sales are the window dressing to an event that is heavily funded by the sponsor. There will also be a calculation made that you can give away x. number of tickets for free or really cheap to get boots on the ground and make a bit of cash on food, drink and merch.

 

[Garush34]

I accept that the sponsor is a crucial element, but if you had a few million from ticket sales it would mean a sponsor wouldn't have to put quite as much cash in and there would likely be a greater number of companies able and willing to sponsor.

As it is the ticket sales are the window dressing to an event that is heavily funded by the sponsor. There will also be a calculation made that you can give away x. number of tickets for free or really cheap to get boots on the ground and make a bit of cash on food, drink and merch.

But how do you sell that to a sponsor until you know how many people you are going to get through the door? If for arguments sake you say that to make an event worth while that you need to get 100,000 through the door minimum but you only get 85,000 that week, what do they do ask the sponsor to now provide the extra money that they lacked from ticket sales? Jogg on would be the response I would have thought from most. Someone has to put up the money in the first place and that person is a sponsor and in return they hope to get business off the back of their sponsor ship, the European tour so not need to sponsor its own tournaments as their brand is already out there with the event its self.

 

[shortgame]

Factor in too that spectator numbers are partly dependant upon the weather... particularly in October!

 

[Steve Bamford]

I was told yesterday by a caddie who was at the British Masters - his player finished in the top 15 last week - that "There will be a new sponsor or new replacement event in England next year, so no need to worry about it being scratched completely."

 

[patricks148]

I was told yesterday by a caddie who was at the British Masters - his player finished in the top 15 last week - that "There will be a new sponsor or new replacement event in England next year, so no need to worry about it being scratched completely."

one of your Relations now doubt??