No British Masters for 2019

[PJ87]

I get a feeling that there is going to be a few issues between golf (especially the European Tour) and Sky over the coming years.
The secret to making money out of golf coverage appears to be the exclusivity of the majors and, to a certain extent, the Ryder Cup. When Sky put together a dedicated golf channel, they had this but now they have lost a few and others look less certain, it remains to be seen whether Sky's involvement in golf remains a big enough money maker.
The timing of US events and the fields playing makes it a bit of a draw but the same cannot be said for European Events.
Perhaps this is the first sign of this or maybe it is me reading too much into it.

Sky golf is one of my bug bears. They try to sell it as the place for all golf, yet almost as soon as they launched it they lost the PGA. Plus they charge £18 pm for it.. yet you can get sky football for £18 pm.: of course they price it so you can just get the lot for the price of one and a half channels but they should price them better

Sky golf for £5 a month would seem more affordable for those without sky sports who just want golf and aren’t interested in football or F1 etc

Considering how much money sky throw at those 2 it’s golf that helps prop them up at the same time whilst seeing its funding cut in a way

Just annoying

 

[Garush34]

Sky golf is one of my bug bears. They try to sell it as the place for all golf, yet almost as soon as they launched it they lost the PGA. Plus they charge £18 pm for it.. yet you can get sky football for £18 pm.: of course they price it so you can just get the lot for the price of one and a half channels but they should price them better

Sky golf for £5 a month would seem more affordable for those without sky sports who just want golf and aren’t interested in football or F1 etc

Considering how much money sky throw at those 2 it’s golf that helps prop them up at the same time whilst seeing its funding cut in a way

Just annoying

I've phoned sky over the last 6 months trying to get a deal on the golf channel. But they only ever give me a deal on them all, its either £15 a month for them all if you buy in for 3 years, or £20 a month for them all. As always I say its not worth it as I'd only watch the one channel, but they never offer a deal on the one channel. I'd take it for anything £10 and under but they don't want to do a deal on it, once they did advise that I could get sky mobile which will give me all the sports channel for £10.95 a month, but not much point in that if you have a 50" TV and have to watch it on a 5" screen.

Personally have no issue with sky having the golf, most other providers don't seem interested and we wouldn't see as much golf if sky didn't invest in it. The chances of the open going back on BBC etc is unlikely because the R&A are not going to suddenly drop their asking price just to suit, and even if they did sure sky would match a lower asking price and provide a better product than the BBC can in my opinion.

 

[patricks148]

Not if TV audiences were better.

no guarantee of that though.

I remember speaking to the head honcho at Aberdeen Asset management the first time they sponsored the Scottish open and i was surprised their audience was the US. but in terms of money even that was a massive drop from Barclays Capitol who had done it before.

I suppose its down to the right niche

 

[Garush34]

Would be interesting to see if the European Tour would have events in Florida, Mexico or the Caribbean at this time in the year. They already go for events in Dubai, South Africa etc. so in reality it's not much different.

The TV times would fit much better and the travelling is travelling whether you are going to Dubai or Florida.

It would also encourage a lot of the US based European guys to play and maybe a few additional Americans would take up European Tour membership if there was decent money on offer.

It would actually make more sense to not ride as hard the events in the summer that are competing with US Tour player schedules and put more effort into the schedule before the Masters and After the Fed Ex Cup / Ryder Cup when the top players are always going to be very selective with their playing time.

The PGA tour already cover Florida, Mexico etc, so it is unlikely that the European tour would move into that market, that's why they went to the middle east and Australia etc. in the first place. Adding the events in Aus will be a good move to grow the brand of the European tour and hopefully attract more sponsors.

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

Would be interesting to see if the European Tour would have events in Florida, Mexico or the Caribbean at this time in the year.

I really like this idea. After all, we have American football games over here so why not. Like you say, would maybe encourage greater membership of the European tour. No idea on the legalities of such a venture but if the desire was there I'm sure any problems could be overcome.

 

[Steve Bamford]

Real shame this is going to happen, but the cost of running a tournament and attracting a field in October, must have proven too much, when compared to the viewing figures. Sky have some real core-issues with their Sports product in terms of rights on-going, with both BT and United States funded opposition on-going.

 

[GB72]

I've phoned sky over the last 6 months trying to get a deal on the golf channel. But they only ever give me a deal on them all, its either £15 a month for them all if you buy in for 3 years, or £20 a month for them all. As always I say its not worth it as I'd only watch the one channel, but they never offer a deal on the one channel. I'd take it for anything £10 and under but they don't want to do a deal on it, once they did advise that I could get sky mobile which will give me all the sports channel for £10.95 a month, but not much point in that if you have a 50" TV and have to watch it on a 5" screen.

Personally have no issue with sky having the golf, most other providers don't seem interested and we wouldn't see as much golf if sky didn't invest in it. The chances of the open going back on BBC etc is unlikely because the R&A are not going to suddenly drop their asking price just to suit, and even if they did sure sky would match a lower asking price and provide a better product than the BBC can in my opinion.

I think that the days of terrestrial sport on any large scale are pretty much gone now. Golf is a fine example. To provide decent coverage would mean dropping 4 days of scheduling, some of which is prime time, just to cover it and that is unlikely to happen. Add to that the fact that it is damned expensive to cover and I think that it is unlikely to happen.

I am all for all rights being on one channel. At least you pay your money and get to see everything rather than at the moment where you may need to subscribe to 2 or 3 channels if you are going to watch all of one particular sport.

 

[PJ87]

Real shame this is going to happen, but the cost of running a tournament and attracting a field in October, must have proven too much, when compared to the viewing figures. Sky have some real core-issues with their Sports product in terms of rights on-going, with both BT and United States funded opposition on-going.

About time BT sport got in on the golf. Would be great

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Well right now Sky are boasting all over the place that they have “exclusive” rights to the NBA , I think BT had it before but they are doing their normal overboard over hype of it right now. I don’t see BT bidding for golf - they know not many people will look to buy subscriptions just to watch golf. Amazon / Facebook and ElevenSports will be the players looking to pick up golf comps for online viewing.

 

[fundy]

Sky sports in general is in for an interesting few years. They do not have enough rugby to make a subscription worthwhile (hence I only have BT Sport, not paying to watch a few internationals and the Lions), some of the golf majors are moving away, they have no Champions League football, big boxing events are on pay per view etc.
As things stand, and this is a personal view, Sky now only have 2 valuable assets, England Cricket and, of course, the Premiership. This is why football rights will keep getting more and more expensive, it is almost as is the whole Sky Sports offering is now based on Sky securing those rights.

Theyre not doing cricket fans too many favours currently either (unless only want English games or youre the new breed who only wants hit and giggle). Theyve already lost the rights of any cricket played in Australia (for 5 yrs to BT Sport), theyve bought up rights to some of the lesser test series and are sitting on those rights but not showing the games (India v WI, Pak v Aus test series)

Its funny how a monopoly was supposed to be bad for the paying fan, one things for sure increased competition to that so called monopoly is far worse (as the market gets more and more fragmented it will cost the fan more and more if they want broad coverage)

 

[Garush34]

Well right now Sky are boasting all over the place that they have “exclusive” rights to the NBA , I think BT had it before but they are doing their normal overboard over hype of it right now. I don’t see BT bidding for golf - they know not many people will look to buy subscriptions just to watch golf. Amazon / Facebook and ElevenSports will be the players looking to pick up golf comps for online viewing.

I'd say that Sky getting the NBA back is a sign that the grass isn't always greener. Sky had the NBA years back and you could regularly watch games every weekend and throughout the week. From what I saw on BT Sport is that they only ever showed the big games or the games that were on in the middle of the night for us here. There was no regular viewing which is pointless if your subscribing for that sport. I hope that sky go back to what they used to do and so far it seems like they might. For me that would make subscribing to sky more interesting as it is a sport I like to watch. And why wouldn't they hype it up? They have paid for the rights so want to get people to watch it.

 

[Grant85]

The PGA tour already cover Florida, Mexico etc, so it is unlikely that the European tour would move into that market, that's why they went to the middle east and Australia etc. in the first place. Adding the events in Aus will be a good move to grow the brand of the European tour and hopefully attract more sponsors.

So what if the PGA Tour covers Florida and Mexico - the European Tour could still have events there in the European winter. It's not like they have a legal right to host all pro golf tournaments on their continent.

Australian events are a total no no from a UK / European audience point of view. The viewing times couldn't be worse basically taking place in the dead of night.

Sky Sports have very little coverage of any Australian events, even ones with decent fields and purses. There is simply not enough people who are interested to sit and watch this through the night and they are not going to get a UK or European based sponsor.

 

[Bunkermagnet]

So what if the PGA Tour covers Florida and Mexico - the European Tour could still have events there in the European winter. It's not like they have a legal right to host all pro golf tournaments on their continent.

Australian events are a total no no from a UK / European audience point of view. The viewing times couldn't be worse basically taking place in the dead of night.

Sky Sports have very little coverage of any Australian events, even ones with decent fields and purses. There is simply not enough people who are interested to sit and watch this through the night and they are not going to get a UK or European based sponsor.

The PGA Tour do have the rights to all American golf coverage I believe, and is much bigger and more powerful than the Eurpean Tour. Thats the reason the European Tour has been bringing in events in the Middle and Far east to try and gain some muscle to compete with the PGA Tour.
Just becasue people might no be up at the time the event is live doesnt mean they wont watch it on replay.

 

[Garush34]

So what if the PGA Tour covers Florida and Mexico - the European Tour could still have events there in the European winter. It's not like they have a legal right to host all pro golf tournaments on their continent.

Australian events are a total no no from a UK / European audience point of view. The viewing times couldn't be worse basically taking place in the dead of night.

Sky Sports have very little coverage of any Australian events, even ones with decent fields and purses. There is simply not enough people who are interested to sit and watch this through the night and they are not going to get a UK or European based sponsor.

I didn't say that the PGA tour have legal rights to host events in those areas just gave a reason as to why it is unlikely that the European tour would go there. And hence why the European tour have created a partnership with the Australian PGA and have co-sanctioned events, to fill the schedule and create a brand in various countries and cultures.

As to the sponsor yeah maybe they won't get a UK or European sponsor but it doesn't have to be. They can use what they have done in other areas to show what sponsoring events can do and what they get in return.

Also don't Hero an Indian motor company sponsor the Hero world challenge on the European tour, with many of those events/nights in Europe? Edinburgh castle and in London last week for example.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

So what if the PGA Tour covers Florida and Mexico - the European Tour could still have events there in the European winter. It's not like they have a legal right to host all pro golf tournaments on their continent.

Australian events are a total no no from a UK / European audience point of view. The viewing times couldn't be worse basically taking place in the dead of night.

Sky Sports have very little coverage of any Australian events, even ones with decent fields and purses. There is simply not enough people who are interested to sit and watch this through the night and they are not going to get a UK or European based sponsor.

Why on earth would the ET go to the US ?! Straight away they would clash telly wise with the PGA tour. We want events closer to home so that we can watch them not send the tour to countries already awash with Golf Comps. The very last thing the ET is play events in the US , people don’t watch much golf on telly in Europe beyond the majors and Ryder Cup - regular ET events and PGA events don’t get people switching on whenever they are on

 

[Grant85]

Why on earth would the ET go to the US ?! Straight away they would clash telly wise with the PGA tour. We want events closer to home so that we can watch them not send the tour to countries already awash with Golf Comps. The very last thing the ET is play events in the US , people don’t watch much golf on telly in Europe beyond the majors and Ryder Cup - regular ET events and PGA events don’t get people switching on whenever they are on

For the reason I just said re: TV audiences and allowing people to watch ET golf in the evening.

They could schedule events versus PGA Tour events in California and they would have 3 hours time difference to play with so there wouldn't be a big clash.

Sure events closer to home are nice, but the vast majority of golf fans are not attending events or cannot attend events, and as we discussed earlier in the thread TV audiences / global interest far more important than ticket sales from a revenue / prize pool / sponsorship point of view.

Plus having a successful series of events in the US / Mexico / Caribbean doesn't mean events in the UK are less likely.

There is already the Open / Scottish Open / PGA Championship / Dunhil Links / Irish Open / Golf Sixes.

I agree that there is an appetite for Professional Events to attend, especially in England where these have generally been well supported by a big population base. However if boots on the ground was a big factor, then the British Masters would not be struggling and would have had people queuing up to continue the event as headline sponsor.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

For the reason I just said re: TV audiences and allowing people to watch ET golf in the evening.

They could schedule events versus PGA Tour events in California and they would have 3 hours time difference to play with so there wouldn't be a big clash.

Seriously ? The viewing figures in the evening are nothing to write home about - let’s be honest not many watch the PGA tour and they ET are not going to go into the US and then you expect people are going to spend 5/6 hours at night watching the same sort event as they already on the PGA - what exactly is the point beyond expecting a sponsor to pay a bit more money. You’re are not going to get the crowds flocking to watch “ Chris Wood” from Bristol. It’s bad enough that the WGC’s get focused around the US market and you think the ET should go there as well ?!

And that’s without going down the production of the events - they don’t even show Ladies Events when they are in different time zones

Sure events closer to home are nice, but the vast majority of golf fans are not attending events or cannot attend events, and as we discussed earlier in the thread TV audiences / global interest far more important than ticket sales from a revenue / prize pool / sponsorship point of view.

The events in the UK do very well from a spectator point of view - the events in the Middle East and China are there only because of money being thrown at the ET from rich oil sheik wanting their own golf Comp on their course - they don’t care about viewing figures - it’s all about status

Plus having a successful series of events in the US / Mexico / Caribbean doesn't mean events in the UK are less likely.

There is already the Open / Scottish Open / PGA Championship / Dunhil Links / Irish Open / Golf Sixes.

I agree that there is an appetite for Professional Events to attend, especially in England where these have generally been well supported by a big population base. However if boots on the ground was a big factor, then the British Masters would not be struggling and would have had people queuing up to continue the event as headline sponsor.

People want to go and watch the golfers play golf - they want to be able to walk next to them , walk around the course with their favourite. It’s bad enough that the ET go all over the Middle East , SA , Far East - the day they go to the US is the day it’s the end for the ET .

 

[Grant85]

Seriously ? The viewing figures in the evening are nothing to write home about - let’s be honest not many watch the PGA tour and they ET are not going to go into the US and then you expect people are going to spend 5/6 hours at night watching the same sort event as they already on the PGA - what exactly is the point beyond expecting a sponsor to pay a bit more money. You’re are not going to get the crowds flocking to watch “ Chris Wood” from Bristol. It’s bad enough that the WGC’s get focused around the US market and you think the ET should go there as well ?!

And that’s without going down the production of the events - they don’t even show Ladies Events when they are in different time zones


The events in the UK do very well from a spectator point of view - the events in the Middle East and China are there only because of money being thrown at the ET from rich oil sheik wanting their own golf Comp on their course - they don’t care about viewing figures - it’s all about status



People want to go and watch the golfers play golf - they want to be able to walk next to them , walk around the course with their favourite. It’s bad enough that the ET go all over the Middle East , SA , Far East - the day they go to the US is the day it’s the end for the ET .

Maybe I'm missing something, but if spectator numbers are so important why are there not more events in the UK & Ireland?

Scotland has plenty of events, and probably there is a little bit of 'golf fatigue' with regards to having the Scottish Open, the Dunhill Links and the Open (maybe 2 in every 4 or 5 years). Doesn't help that there isn't much in the way of Scottish talent at the right end of the game.

But in England and Ireland, interest is high - elite players are involved in major tournaments and crowd numbers at an English or Irish event is good. Yet next season we will have 1 European Tour event in the Republic of Ireland (irish Open) and 1 in England (Wentworth). Not sure about the golf sixes. Also the Open will be in N. Ireland, but this is a one off - or maybe a once a decade at best.

So you may know something I don't, but if they knew that they would sell 150,000+ tickets for an event in the East of Ireland or the South East of England (which they probably would)... why are the tour not putting on more events and saying to the Trophee Hassan or the Fiji International... sorry lads, your events will have to move to early or late in the year... we have 150,000 people in GB & Ireland busting to pay £30 a day and buy beers at £6 a pop to watch Chris Wood & Paul Dunne go head to head for €400,000.

The ET are not daft. They do a LOT of sponsorship activity, make a lot of deals and have involvement with global brands all over the world who have an active budget for this sort of thing.

My point was simply that at this time of year, they could put an event or two on over in the right timezone and get some decent TV numbers and let people actually watch the Chris Woods and Paul Dunne's of the European Tour in the evenings, and maybe pick up the likes of Ian Poulter and Graeme McDowell who are based in the US and would be happy to pick up a 'European' event closer to home.

Currently there are a few 'big' American names as ET members... Patrick Reed being the most high profile. Who is to say that a Brooks Koepka or Rickie Fowler won't decide to join and play his 4 events, knowing that there are 2 in his current timezone, and he can play an event prior to the Open and the big 3 in Turkey / SA and Dubai in November with big money on offer?

Also note that the US Tour has events in Asia currently so there is a gap in the TV schedule and you only need to pick up a fraction of American golf audience for some good numbers.

I'm not saying move the whole schedule or abandon long standing European Tour events, or give up the notion that the UK golf fans will turn out for the right event, but I do think it would be something worth exploring.

 

[shortgame]

150,000 people in GB & Ireland busting to pay £30 a day

Haven't checked so stand to be corrected but from the days I've been to I doubt the British Masters gets those numbers (less than half probably). And a fair percentage of the spectators get free admission (kids / sky subscribers etc)

 

[jim8flog]

The PGA Tour do have the rights to all American golf coverage I believe,
.

They do not have the rights to USGA events* as The European Tour do not have the rights to R&A events.

*Hence the US PGA going to Eleven sports