New Rules w.e.f. January 2023

[Steven Rules]

Why do you think they are different?
- ball touching a penalty area > it's in the penalty area
- ball touching the course > it's on the course

True enough. But to get this right the player needs to know:
*for the course boundary - the line itself (when marked by a line) is not on the course
*for a PA - the line itself (when marked by a line) is in the PA.

 

[rulie]

That’s pretty simple- penalty areas are on the course, the line or stakes defining out of bounds are not on the course. Do you want a ball on the couse side of an oob line, but touching that line, to be oob because it’s touching oob?
A ball touching the putting green is on the putting green; a ball touching a penalty area is in the penalty area; a ball touching the course is on the course. That’s consistent.

 

[woofers]

Why do you think they are different?
- ball touching a penalty area > it's in the penalty area
- ball touching the course > it's on the course

A ball is out of bounds only when all of it is outside the boundary edge of the course.
A ball is in a penalty area when any part of it is inside the edge of the penalty area.
I interpret a difference there.

 

[backwoodsman]

True enough. But to get this right the player needs to know:
*for the course boundary - the line itself (when marked by a line) is not on the course
*for a PA - the line itself (when marked by a line) is in the PA.

See Rulie's explanation.
Another way of seeing it, is that the line defining OOB is the first bit of ground that is OOB. A line defining a PA is the first bit of ground that is the PA.

 

[YandaB]

See Rulie's explanation.
Another way of seeing it, is that the line defining OOB is the first bit of ground that is OOB. A line defining a PA is the first bit of ground that is the PA.

So does that make it in In Bounds line then? If you are touching the In Bounds line, you are on the course, if you are past it, you are out of bounds, is that more consistent?

 

[backwoodsman]

So does that make it in In Bounds line then? If you are touching the In Bounds line, you are on the course, if you are past it, you are out of bounds, is that more consistent?

Don't think so.
As per Rulie, if any of the ball is touching the course, then it's on the course. (ie only when all the ball is on or over the line does it mean that none of it is touching the course).

 

[Steven Rules]

Do you want a ball on the couse side of an oob line, but touching that line, to be oob because it’s touching oob

No. I personally don't need anything changed. I am very comfortable that I know the definitions. Many people - including at least one poster after yours - clearly find it confusing though.

a ball touching a penalty area is in the penalty area; a ball touching the course is on the course.

Very simple - as long as you know that the line marking the penalty area is in the penalty area whereas the line marking the course is not on the course.

That’s consistent

Many would say that is inconsistent.

 

[rulefan]

the line marking the course is not on the course.

I used to wonder about a situation where a landowner had a closely mown field/lawn immediately adjacent to a golf course fairway. His field is OOB. If he won't permit a white line to be painted or stakes 'planted' on his land, there would be a sliver of the golf club land OOB.

 

[backwoodsman]

No. I personally don't need anything changed. I am very comfortable that I know the definitions. Many people - including at least one poster after yours - clearly find it confusing though.

Very simple - as long as you know that the line marking the penalty area is in the penalty area whereas the line marking the course is not on the course.


Many would say that is inconsistent.

I think you're trying to attribute confusion to me - I can assure you thats not the case

 

[Smiffy]

Morning Smiffy.
Piltdown looks beautiful.

Brutal more like...
Read the hole descriptions, there's not one that doesn't have the word "heather" in it, combined with the words "vast" "expanse" "dense" "deep"
It's not a nice place to be if you're having a bad day off the tee, or your approaches are going a bit astray. Who needs bunkers?????

 

[rulie]

Out of bounds is where the Committee determines it to be; it does not need to relate to the legal boundaries of the property.

 

[Colin L]

Brutal more like...
Read the hole descriptions, there's not one that doesn't have the word "heather" in it, combined with the words "vast" "expanse" "dense" "deep"
It's not a nice place to be if you're having a bad day off the tee, or your approaches are going a bit astray. Who needs bunkers?????

Piltdown looks beautiful from the photos. Heather looks beautiful and no doubt contributes to the attractiveness of the place. We are all lucky that our favoured sport is usually played out in lovely, natural surroundings. But I am totally with you about the horrors of playing out of heather. Who needs bunkers when there is heather, indeed? Is "brutal" strong enough a word? I'm a Scot, remember. I have played rural courses that have been hacked out of heather and rock and are mown by sheep.

 

[rulefan]

Out of bounds is where the Committee determines it to be; it does not need to relate to the legal boundaries of the property.

How would you define the OB margin in the situation described in post #68?

I did ponder the idea of something like 'the outside edge of the BLUE line'. The blue line being on the club property.

I sometimes wonder about the EG (and my County's) reference to the 'inside line at ground level' when referring to a hedge on the course's property. This could deny the player the opportunity to take an unplayable.

 

[backwoodsman]

I fear I'm missing something, but why is there an issue in post #68 with some OOB (even if only a white line's width wide) being on club property.

 

[Steven Rules]

I think you're trying to attribute confusion to me - I can assure you thats not the case

No. Not you. But re-reading the post to which I was referring, I may have slightly misunderstood the context of the wording of that post.

 

[rulefan]

I fear I'm missing something, but why is there an issue in post #68 with some OOB (even if only a white line's width wide) being on club property.

There isn't an issue. As a then new golfer, it struck me as odd that in this case the limit of the club's land was not the limit of the course. Whereas in he case of a wall on the club's land, the margin is often defined as 'over the wall'. But I know 'on or over' is just as prevalent.

 

[backwoodsman]

There isn't an issue. As a then new golfer, it struck me as odd that in this case the limit of the club's land was not the limit of the course. Whereas in he case of a wall on the club's land, the margin is often defined as 'over the wall'. But I know 'on or over' is just as prevalent.

Ah, OK. ( seems I missed the historical nature of the reference ... )

 

[rulie]

How would you define the OB margin in the situation described in post #68?

I did ponder the idea of something like 'the outside edge of the BLUE line'. The blue line being on the club property.

I sometimes wonder about the EG (and my County's) reference to the 'inside line at ground level' when referring to a hedge on the course's property. This could deny the player the opportunity to take an unplayable.

Put the stakes or lines one club-length inside the property line, ie, one club-length from the neighbors property. As noted previously, legal property lines are irrelevant when the Committee determines the course and out of bounds.
For example, a clubhouse is usually located on the club's property, but many Committees have marked the clubhouse as out of bounds, as they are permitted to do.

 

[Chinny]

Has anybody an idea what is likely to change please?

Just noticed on Amazon that the Rules of Golf 2023 are available for pre order now and are being released next week Thursday 3/11/22 so hopefully we'll get to know the changes very soon.

Hope this helps

Chinny
St Annes Old Links