new European Tour members

[Marko77]

Villegas and Kim

Is this good or bad? Taking up 2 spaces when it is already hard enough for players to get into fields.

Will this Race to Dubai get more cash hungry US based Pro's coming across?

Would be great if they appear regularly but can't help but feel it will be the minimum number of events easily achieved nowadays that they play in leaving the lower down European players with only the lesser events to play in making it even harder to retain their cards.

 

[Imurg]

Its a con really.

With the WGC events (4?) counting as well as the Majors, they've only got 3 or 4 others to play in "Europe" to qualify. One or 2 will be in the Middle East, one in China and one other so they havn't really got much extra work to do have they?

And yes they will take up spaces that struggling Euro Pro's would take but it will increase the stature of the EUropean Events to the point where more Ranking points will be available to the likes of Harrington, Garcia and Westwood as the more top players in the field, the more points awarded.

 

[medwayjon]

I have said from the start that it is flawed.

It should be 12 events excluding majors and WGC, that would require a much larger commitment to the tour.

 

[USER1999]

I think it is a bit sad that multi millionaires like Michelson are debating whether to follow the dollar, and try to get even more cash by joining a tour they don't really support.

It is all a bit grubby to me.

 

[StuartD]

I have said from the start that it is flawed.

It should be 12 events excluding majors and WGC, that would require a much larger commitment to the tour.

I kind of agree with you MWJ but this would make it very difficult for some of our big name players who want to play on both sides of the pond. Justin Rose would have lost his tour card last year if this was the case. Most of our big name players would be forced to give up their US tour cards to keep there Euro card but I suspect some would probably do it the other way round!!

 

[birdieman]

Sorry gents, have to totally disagree. I pay Sky Sports to watch golf and I do not pay that subscription to subsidise the earnings of lowly professionals. If they are good enough their talent will take them to the top.
I would be absolutely delighted if the European Tour can attract some of the well known faces across from the US Tour. Protecting places in tournamments for run of the mill pros is ridiculous - it's supposed to be entertainment. Kim and Villegas are two of the most exciting players around so great stuff - get them over here - it's no different to Poulter, Garcia, Rose, Casey etc playing on the US Tour. I would go and watch a tournament to see Villegas and Kim, I would not go to watch the likes of Robert Rock or Peter Lawrie etc etc.

 

[Imurg]

But they're only really playing in the States because that's where the big money is.

If the US stars join the European Tour the big money will follow them and Rosie et al won't need the States.

 

[viscount17]

birdie, while I agree with most of what you say, I disagree on one point - it's not entertainment, it's competition. entertainment is a chipping contest.

but, I would still like the playing requirement to be higher.

 

[Spoff]

The 'poorer' pro's would suffer in the short term by better players coming over here, but in the long run I am sure it would become more competative. They will have to raise there game. Practace harder, get fitter and the quality of golf can surely only improve?

 

[StuartD]

But they're only really playing in the States because that's where the big money is.

If the US stars join the European Tour the big money will follow them and Rosie et al won't need the States.

Partly agree they play in the states where the big money is but its also because courses are better prepared throughout the year, the competition is stronger and also because all the WGC events are there

Can't agree that the big money will follow the US stars to the European tour as a previous post said that they will only have to play 3 or four Euro tour events. You would have to make them play a lot more events for this to happen. If you forced them to play more events i don't think many of them would bother to take up a euro tour card

 

[Beaker]

I agree with you birdieman, I pay for Sky Sports to be entertained. Alot of the better tour events i've watched have involved the better players, it might just be coincidence but i think attracting the bigger players creates a better competition. I've even payed for Setanta because most of the US events this year have had better players, who I want to watch!

(I also have Setanta as they show the duff games in the Premier League so I get to see my team ((The mighty BORO!)) more on Setanta than Sky!)

The other side though to all this is what happens to the journeymen pro's or the up and coming pro's? If they are good enough and dedicated enough, then they will come through?!

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I think it is to the detriment of the European Tour. Imagine you go to the Q school and get your card. Most fields are made up of 156 competitiors adn suddenly you are being bumped so that all these US tour based players come over to chase the Dubai cash. This means the events you do play in become critical to make cuts to earn enough cash to reatin said card. This means youngsters aren't given an opportunity to learn their trade. It is all very well saying, get better/fitter etc but the first year on tour is such a learning curve (learn the courses, get use to the travel etc) that in my opinion, anyone coming onto tour and retaining their card after the first year has actually achieved a lot.

I think the Race for Dubai needed to be weighted more to those who have carried the European Tour. Look at the like of Broadhurst and Lane etc who have been out there for years and make a decent living now but were there when it was hard to make ends meet even if you had a good season. Where are their rewards? It should not include the WGC events and have a minimum of 12 events. THe likes of Rose etc need to decide where they want to play. If they are happy to chase the dollar then stay on the PGA tour. If they want to win the Race, play on the European Tour

 

[SammmeBee]

I would much rather watch Kim, Villegas than let's pick Sam Little and Benn Barham, and I have no interest in watching some Welsh bloke who's turned Pro had a couple of good weeks and it ranked 57 in Cat 12 and get's in on the events that no one else wants to play in.

If said Welshy does well and gets a start next week and so on then great.

If they are good enough they will get a start on merit. There are enough ways of getting into an event - invite, top 10 previous week, reranking if you are good enough but don't start out the year with a decent ranking.

While we're at - I think said Welshy would be a bit more annoyed by 3/4/5 amateurs getting a place in the field (and thus taking his rightful place), all shooting 80+ and missing the cut - whilst he sits at home and can't earn any money.

 

[birdieman]

Homer, I think you are looking at it from the struggling Pros' point of view because I think you've journeyed that road a bit in your past.
However one of the biggest issues you hear touted around about golf is it should be a world game and guys like Ernie Els and Goosen have won a lot of respect for showcasing their talents all around the world. The other side of this is that some of the perhaps more insular Yanks (Woods, Mickelson, Furyk) etc have not taken the game out of the US bar one visit to the UK every summer for The Open or occasional WGC event.
For the paying spectator going to a tournament they want to see the best players they can, I don't think issues such as "maybe an unknown lower ranked player will miss a starting spot because T Woods is coming" really enters into it for joe public paying his money at the gate.
Surely these pros are on tour to promote the game and provide entertainment to the masses, not just there to earn their own living, we the public don't owe them anything despite what tales of struggle at Q School or mini-tours is relevant to them. That's what professional sport is, if you're not good enough you won't ultimately succeed.
Maybe I'm missing the point but the Road to Dubai or whatever it's called will help the European Tour in terms of status and making events in Europe a higher standard, driven by money yes, but that's th eway it is in all sports.
You shouldn't need to stick to one tour or another as a player, people from all countries want to see the best golfers play regardless of how many times they come over the pond from another tour.
Hopefully we will see the US tour venture further than US, Canada and Mexico in future too.

 

[Sam]

Birdie
Good points well made but isn't there a bit of a parallel here with football. Players from other countries in our clubs is cited as a reason for lack of home grown!

 

[birdieman]

Sam,
I don't really see the problem here either. Truthfully top European club football is a higher standard than international anyway. ManU, Chelsea, Arsenal could all beat the current England team or any other international team.
In Scotland any decent footballers (ok there aren't any at the moment I admit) but looking back guys like Dalgleish, Jordan, Souness etc all played out of Scotland and we didn't see it as bad for our national team, quite the opposite it was good for our national team(Scotland) as they were better players for it.
If English players can't get a game for top English clubs they need to be prepared to travel to Europe, work hard and play in leagues over there to improve with a view to coming back better players to join top English clubs. However with the UK still having a largely 'them and us' attitude to continental Europe that doesn't happen. It should though. Their top foreign pros are happy to come over here and tolerate our crappy weather and violent night-life for admittedly silly money but they get on with it. Our upcoming home players need to see that there is life beyond Englands clubs and stop looking for easy money in the premiership.
Surely the standard of the current England team must be better for the England players having to compete week in week out at club level against world class foreigners like Ronaldo, Anelka, Fabregas, Torres etc - what better way to improve as a player than try to play against the likes of them.
These foreigners should be an inspiration for lads in this country not a hinderance. I think it's just UK kids are fat and lazy playing video games and eating crap instead of doing cross-country running and eating vegetables like we had to!

 

[sandford93]

It should not include the WGC events and have a minimum of 12 events.

completely agree, home-grown talent such as padriag should be praised for his majors haul but the WGC is pretty much a PGA Tour Event.

 

[rgs]

The Majors(4) WGC events(3) mean only 5 events must be played on the European Tour-i believe 2 of the 5 must be in Europe other than the Open.

To answer Homer's query--the struggling pro cant make the major field or the WGC events so no change from the present position. The "Big name" Yanks will only play the bigger events which the struggling pro is not qualified to enter-no change from current position. The struggling pro will have numerous other events to enter and earn sufficient money to retain his card.

 

[viscount17]

aren't a number of places already available to the yanks (which they rarely take up) by virtue of their placing on the pga - or does that only apply to The Open

 

[Marko77]

Is the USPGA really that exciting? I subscribed to setanta primarily for the golf but now watch nasn most of the time but can't recall that many exciting events, most were all but over by Saturday night. I have to admit though, I thought the Playoffs gave us a couple of good weekends, it was a shame it was all over by the final event.

I feel the European Tour throws up entertainment more regularly with the old faithfuls and the occassional "who is he?"

I agree with those who say the Majors and WGC events shouldn't be part of the minimum number of events. Makes it far to easy for them to 'fulfill' their obligation.