New 2019 rules

[User101]

What if the OOB is far enough away from the fairway even a drop on the edge doesn’t give a shot to the green where as a provisional ball that finds the fairway can. I don’t see many OOB that have a fairway within two club length s

I've only seen the bid for the lost ball, I assumed for ob you do the same, take a line from the flag and the point of oob to two clubs on the fairway, if that's not how it is then oob is different from a lost ball or I've completely missing this.

 

[mikejohnchapman]

I've only seen the bid for the lost ball, I assumed for ob you do the same, take a line from the flag and the point of oob to two clubs on the fairway, if that's not how it is then oob is different from a lost ball or I've completely missing this.

If I understood the video correctly the drop is "in the vicinity of where the ball went out of bounds". It was commented the "could be on the fairway". Not sure how vicinity is defined but some of our OOB as 30 yards from the fairway.

 

[User101]

Well I've clearly viewed the video with a different mindset cause it shows the guy dropping on the fairway after taking two clubs and a good way from where his ball was lost, that was my interpretation of it anyway.

 

[User101]

Watced it again, clearly shows your relief area is "quite large" and clearly on the fairway or anywhere in that area, I guess most would choose the fairway option.

 

[User101]

If I understood the video correctly the drop is "in the vicinity of where the ball went out of bounds". It was commented the "could be on the fairway". Not sure how vicinity is defined but some of our OOB as 30 yards from the fairway.

The video shows the man dropping on the fairway, all it said is estimate where you think you've lost your ball etc and drawing a line from the flag between where you ball may be and two clubs on the fairway....seems pretty clear to me you can drop on the fairway if lost or oob, unless of course I'm watching a different vid from you guys ??

 

[Imurg]

And why would anyone NOT drop on the fairway given the opportunity.....
"General Area"...!!!???
In the video he's dropped 20+ yards away. Ok, it's cost him 2 shots but he's out in the open win a clear line to the green....
Surely a fairer penalty would be to estimate the ball position and drop within 2 clubs for a one shot penalty.
At least that way you still have to play a golf shot to get in the clear....
You shouldn't be able to drop on the fairway from a lost ball...make the limiting the drop area the edge of the fairway...

There are far better ways of speeding up play than messing with the "play it as it lies" mantra
Not in favour.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

You take a drop in the “vicinity” of where you believe the ball went OOB or lost

“Balls Lost or Out of Bounds: Alternative to Stroke and Distance: A new Local Rule will now be available in January 2019, permitting committees to allow golfers the option to drop the ball in the vicinity of where the ball is lost or out of bounds (including the nearest fairway area), under a two-stroke penalty. It addresses concerns raised at the club level about the negative impact on pace of play when a player is required to go back under stroke and distance. The Local Rule is not intended for higher levels of play, such as professional or elite level competitions. (Key change: this is a new addition to support pace of play)”

So if the OOB is right next to the fairway you will be able to drop it there but you can’t just drop it on the fairway if it’s over a couple club lengths away - but how often do we see that ? People aren’t going to be dropping balls in the fairway if declaring it lost or if it’s gone OOB unless the OOB is right next to the fairway

Also it’s worth remembering the videos and articles being sent out now are giving people an idea of what the changes are - when it comes to 2019 the wordings will be tightened up etc

 

[Imurg]

Have you watched the video?
The guy marks his ball position in a bush 15-20 yards away
He doesn't drop 2 clubs from the bush, he drops 2 clubs onto the fairway....
That's not, in my view, "in the vicinity"

 

[mikejohnchapman]

Have you watched the video?
The guy marks his ball position in a bush 15-20 yards away
He doesn't drop 2 clubs from the bush, he drops 2 clubs onto the fairway....
That's not, in my view, "in the vicinity"

You are right - looking at it again you can take relief on the fairway however far it is away from where the ball is lost.

Not sure why this is a local rule or if it will be used in competitions but I was wrong initially if the videos are to be believed.

Also wonder how this will work with course assessments as a club implementing this LR makes a material change to the difficulty of the hole by not having to play stroke and distance.

Guess I just couldn't believe it.

 

[Lump]

The whole idea is to stop the 3 off the tee and losing that ball, causing more lost time.
It works very well IMO. Will hopefully speed things up quite a bit in these circumstances.

You are not always going to be able to drop on the fairway and have a clear line to the green. It all depends on the layout of the hole.

 

[rulefan]

You are right - looking at it again you can take relief on the fairway however far it is away from where the ball is lost.

Not sure why this is a local rule or if it will be used in competitions but I was wrong initially if the videos are to be believed.

Also wonder how this will work with course assessments as a club implementing this LR makes a material change to the difficulty of the hole by not having to play stroke and distance.

Guess I just couldn't believe it.

1) It is a local rule because pros and elite high level amateur events will not use it but all others will have the option.

2) It will not affect course rating because OB and unplayable extreme rough are rated as the same thing. ER is rated as if the player will take a couple of strokes to get out sideways onto the fairway and S&D also costs 2 strokes to effectively get to where he wanted to be first time. That's not exactly how it it's done but that's how it works out.

 

[SteveJay]

I reckon that people won't take long to realise that leaving it in gives a more advantageous outcome most of the time.

Have read elsewhere that studies have shown that where there is a risk of the player putting more than a couple feet past the hole, then there is an advantage in having the flag in. The USGA/R&A statement that the benefits/disadvantages equal out is maybe stretching it a bit. The main benefit seems to be on a fast, downhill putt having the flag in might stop or slow a heavy putt.

For me, I think I will still want it out for shorter or uphill putts but yes, people will work out their preferences over time.

 

[rulefan]

when it comes to 2019 the wordings will be tightened up etc

The full wordings are fixed and are available to download now.

 

[Imurg]

When I play solo, I leave flags in.
It gives me a more real target other than the hole.
On shorter putts you can hit it a touch firmer than you need to negate the break, knowing that hitting the pin will probably drop the ball in the hole.
I'll be leaving it in almost all the time.
But if someone else wants it out then it's going to made to e as the flag goes in, comes out, goes in again....

They're trying to save time here but seem to be giving it back elsewhere....

 

[rulefan]

Has anyone noticed that putters will not be eligible as the longest club?

 

[Imurg]

I don't really get why that's in there...
Almost everyone would use the driver to measure as it's generally the longest club
If you're Bernhard Langer you could use your broomhandle....it's only going to be 2-3 inches longer soma gain of 6 inches over a couple of years plus...
Not exactly a huge discrepancy, especially as some drivers can be 43" and some 46" or even 48"
Especially as there's probably about 10 broomhandles left in the world.....

 

[rulefan]

Have read elsewhere that studies have shown that where there is a risk of the player putting more than a couple feet past the hole, then there is an advantage in having the flag in. The USGA/R&A statement that the benefits/disadvantages equal out is maybe stretching it a bit. The main benefit seems to be on a fast, downhill putt having the flag in might stop or slow a heavy putt.

For me, I think I will still want it out for shorter or uphill putts but yes, people will work out their preferences over time.

Some years ago Dave Pelz devised some tests simulating many thousands of shots from just off the green. He showed that there was a significant advantage in leaving the flagstick in the hole. Not necessarily because the ball might be more likely to be holed but primarily that a ball hitting the flagstick will finish nearer the hole that one that misses or would run over the hole.

 

[User101]

You take a drop in the “vicinity” of where you believe the ball went OOB or lost

“Balls Lost or Out of Bounds: Alternative to Stroke and Distance: A new Local Rule will now be available in January 2019, permitting committees to allow golfers the option to drop the ball in the vicinity of where the ball is lost or out of bounds (including the nearest fairway area), under a two-stroke penalty. It addresses concerns raised at the club level about the negative impact on pace of play when a player is required to go back under stroke and distance. The Local Rule is not intended for higher levels of play, such as professional or elite level competitions. (Key change: this is a new addition to support pace of play)”

So if the OOB is right next to the fairway you will be able to drop it there but you can’t just drop it on the fairway if it’s over a couple club lengths away - but how often do we see that ? People aren’t going to be dropping balls in the fairway if declaring it lost or if it’s gone OOB unless the OOB is right next to the fairway

Also it’s worth remembering the videos and articles being sent out now are giving people an idea of what the changes are - when it comes to 2019 the wordings will be tightened up etc

That is not what the video shows, you're welcome to drop "in the vicinity" I'll be dropping it on the fairway thank you very much.

 

[mikejohnchapman]

1) It is a local rule because pros and elite high level amateur events will not use it but all others will have the option.

2) It will not affect course rating because OB and unplayable extreme rough are rated as the same thing. ER is rated as if the player will take a couple of strokes to get out sideways onto the fairway and S&D also costs 2 strokes to effectively get to where he wanted to be first time. That's not exactly how it it's done but that's how it works out.

But these tournaments are governed by a hard card anyway so local rules don't apply.

I will have to read the USGA guide again but my point was that if you have a difficult tee shot then with the local rule in place you are guaranteed to be playing from the fairway for 4. Without it you could loose another ball and be playing 5 off the tee.

 

[mikejohnchapman]

Excuse my stupidity but how does it save you a shot ? 3 off the tee, playing 4 possibly with a decent provisional. Playing 4 from the fairway after going OOB, or have I missed something.

If on a short hole you hit the first out of bounds and your second on the green you are putting for a 4 aren't you?