Model Local Rule E-5 in place. Are scores acceptable for handicapping in the UK?

[D-S]

In another thread this question is being debated. I have always understood that under CONGU it was a simple, categoric no,

After trying to check in the various sources there is no clear definitive answer that I can see.

Any better, clearer answers?

 

[Arthur Wedge]

In another thread this question is being debated. I have always understood that under CONGU it was a simple, categoric no,

After trying to check in the various sources there is no clear definitive answer that I can see.

Any better, clearer answers?

Found here by paul James

 

[YandaB]

It depends on where you are playing, in "GUIDANCE ON THE WHS RULES OF HANDICAPPING AS APPLIED WITHIN GB&I" page 52

Model LocalRule E-5:Use of Alternative to Stroke andDistance used in organized competition:Not acceptable

 

[D-S]

How on earth would a Committee know whether a player had proceeded under E-5 when submitting a GP score?

 

[D-S]

It depends on where you are playing, in "GUIDANCE ON THE WHS RULES OF HANDICAPPING AS APPLIED WITHIN GB&I" page 52

Model LocalRule E-5:Use of Alternative to Stroke andDistance used in organized competition:Not acceptable

and in submission of a GP score?

 

[YandaB]

and in submission of a GP score?

Good question, I can't see that specified in the Guidance.

 

[rulie]

Good question, I can't see that specified in the Guidance.

If it's not included as "not acceptable", it must be acceptable.

 

[PJ87]

How on earth would a Committee know whether a player had proceeded under E-5 when submitting a GP score?

It was very interesting to find the guidance last night (as posted above by @Arthur Wedge) that it seems that you can use it for GP (albeit it the wording is very fluffy)

As posted on the thread when debating it for me GP scores were brought in to get a better idea of people's handicaps when they might not play a lot of comps

Card on the table I'm 22.5 right now , if general play didn't exist my handicap would be 24.7 based entirely on comp scores. I've gone back through my record and to get 20 scores took me back to June 2021.

Anyways I believe the GP scores are a better reflection of handicap than using scores that go that far back (my handicap last 20 goes back to June 2024) so for me whs works highlighting form in its system

The local rules that are used for general play (but not for comps) would take away a bit of enjoyment of just playing sometimes if I'm honest. Whilst we aren't a "true links" we are that style. A fair few times a shot looks safe off the tee you get there and where's that gone? In comps my group have a rule that if you can't see any shot finish entirely then provisional, so that makes it a bit slower in our experience. Where as general play drop a ball and continue with a pen for general play doesn't make you walk back to where you played before.


Just seems sensible to use in GP because whs wants people to submit as many cards as possible, my mate as I said has done 200 cards in a year. But they also want to keep play moving which is what this rule was brought in for.

 

[D-S]

But is the rule in place at your club?
You can’t just pick and choose local rules that suit you on the day.
Would you be ok with people using preferred lies in the middle of the summer because they were in a divot? then just claiming that they have decided to adopt MLR E-3. Or seeing some leaves around when they can’t find their ball so we’ll adopt F-14 for this hole.
Fair enough for a casual knockabout but not for submission for handicap.

 

[PJ87]

But is the rule in place at your club?
You can’t just pick and choose local rules that suit you on the day.
Would you be ok with people using preferred lies in the middle of the summer because they were in a divot? then just claiming that they have decided to adopt MLR E-3. Or seeing some leaves around when they can’t find their ball so we’ll adopt F-14 for this hole.
Fair enough for a casual knockabout but not for submission for handicap.

Far as I'm aware it's in play , and as mentioned it's on page 36-37 of the whs handbook, it says it can be used even if not implemented at the time. That seems to be one of the two MLR that are fine without adoption (that and distance measuring) doesn't say "all" MLR it mentions those 2 specifically

 

[jim8flog]

and in submission of a GP score?

I would have though that this applies

2.1b

ii) General Play. When an organized competition is not being contested, a
score is not generally acceptable for handicap purposes if the player:
l Breaches the Rules of Golf, and the correct penalty is not applied under
the Rules of Golf, or
l Deliberately ignores a Rule of Golf.
Where a player follows the provisions set down in a Model Local Rule, even
when the Committee in charge of the course has not adopted that Model
Local Rule, the score may still be acceptable for handicap purposes.

 

[PJ87]

I would have though that this applies

2.1b

ii) General Play. When an organized competition is not being contested, a
score is not generally acceptable for handicap purposes if the player:
l Breaches the Rules of Golf, and the correct penalty is not applied under
the Rules of Golf, or
l Deliberately ignores a Rule of Golf.
Where a player follows the provisions set down in a Model Local Rule, even
when the Committee in charge of the course has not adopted that Model
Local Rule, the score may still be acceptable for handicap purposes.

Brings me back to my question last night. What committee do igolf members report to? For me it's whs .. and whs overseas the whole handicap system .. if they want to accept general play with this on I don't think any local committee can stop them.

 

[rulefan]

What committee do igolf members report to?

England Golf?

 

[PJ87]

England Golf?

So England golf being the overseer of whs in the UK would surely be able to apply the local rules to all course even if the committee on that course doesn't apply it.. I mean they are the governing body and their own hand book says the rule can be accepted for handicap even if not adopted by the local committee

 

[mikejohnchapman]

We haven't implemented it but there is nothing to stop a visiting society doing so under their competition conditions. No oversight possible.

 

[rulefan]

So England golf being the overseer of whs in the UK would surely be able to apply the local rules to all course even if the committee on that course doesn't apply it.. I mean they are the governing body and their own hand book says the rule can be accepted for handicap even if not adopted by the local committee

EG is in effect the equivalent of a Club committee in respect of iGolf.
Its role in respect of WHS is quite independent of that.

The Handicap Index® for Non-Club Members - £46 Per Year

Offering non-club members the opportunity to have an Official Handicap Index under the WHS for only £46 per year, sign up today.

englandigolf.co.uk

Incidentally EG is not 'the overseer of whs in the UK'. Its authority does not extend to Wales, Scotland or Ireland. It is simply the National Authority for England.

From the iGolf website.
England Golf is the only authorised handicapping body for the World Handicap System™ (WHS™) in England, therefore the only place you can access a Handicap Index® under the WHS™, just like a club member.
iGolf is an easy-to-use platform that non-club golfers in England to track their performance, view their playing record and obtain or maintain a Handicap Index® under the World Handicap System™ through the MyEG app.

 

[Colin L]

So England golf being the overseer of whs in the UK would surely be able to apply the local rules to all course even if the committee on that course doesn't apply it.. I mean they are the governing body and their own hand book says the rule can be accepted for handicap even if not adopted by the local committee

That would go down well.

England Golf is the golfing authority for England (the clue is in the title ).

Scottish Golf is the authority for Scotland, Wales Golf for Wales and Golf Ireland for Northern Ireland and Eire. For handicapping governance they together form the Council of National Golf Unions (CONGU) but the WHS Rules are made by the R&A and USGA in partnership.

 

[PJ87]

That would go down well.

England Golf is the golfing authority for England (the clue is in the title ).

Scottish Golf is the authority for Scotland, Wales Golf for Wales and Golf Ireland for Northern Ireland and Eire. For handicapping governance they together form the Council of National Golf Unions (CONGU) but the WHS Rules are made by the R&A and USGA in partnership.

Apologies yes England

 

[jim8flog]

So England golf being the overseer of whs in the UK would surely be able to apply the local rules to all course even if the committee on that course doesn't apply it.. I mean they are the governing body and their own hand book says the rule can be accepted for handicap even if not adopted by the local committee

I would have thought this would apply

Rules of Handicapping

An authorized National Association may delegate some of its
responsibilities to a Regional Golf Association or a golf club.