tobybarker
Active member
I'd love to see the reaction at our place if K1 was put in place, wherein players in a slow group get a 1 shot penalty if they take longer than a specified time to complete their round... anyone ever seen this in place?!
MLR K1...pace of play
- Thread starter tobybarker
- Start date
Colin L
Tour Winner
No. And I never want to. It is a wholly unjust and unjustifiable sanction as it could (and more than likely would) result in two innocent players being penalised because of one guilty one. We talk of a "slow group" but in terms of culpability, there's really no such thing. There's a group slowed by one or more individuals and sanctions should only be applied individually where merited.
bobmac
Major Champion
No-one has the right to tell someone else how fast or slow they should play.
tobybarker
Active member
yeah, they do. would you stand idly by when your fellow competitor tries to take 6 hours?
D
Deleted member 29109
Guest
Those not playing slow in a slow group might be encouraged to persuade the person slowing everyone down to get a move on if a penalty is on the cards!
jim8flog
Journeyman Pro
Except the Rule makers for the Rules of Golf
Extract Rule 5
• Play continuously and at a prompt pace during each hole until the round
is completed.
When it is a player’s turn to play, it is recommended that they make the stroke in no
more than 40 seconds, and usually more quickly than that.
Colin L
Tour Winner
indeed they might, but that's no justification for penalising them if they are unsuccessful. How do you justify threatening a player with a penalty into having to control the actions of another player over whom he has no authority?
Tell that to the Pro's.
bobmac
Major Champion
And if someone wants to make you go round in under 3 hours?
rulie
Head Pro
At our national amateur events, we use a "group pace of play" policy. The Tournament Committee sets a "time par" for each hole, transition time between nines, and hence a total time for the round. We use checkpoints at holes 4, 9, 13 and 18, recording the time the group completes that checkpoint hole and comparing their elapsed time to what is expected. For example, a group starts at no. 1, their time to complete hole 4 is compared to the expected elapsed time for holes 1 through 4. If they are over that total elapsed time and did not complete hole 4 within 14 minutes of the group in front of them, they are out of position and will be so advised by the checkpoint official. The first missed checkpoint results in a warning, the second missed checkpoint means the group is liable to a one stroke penalty, the third missed checkpoint means the group is liable to an additional two stroke penalty, the fourth missed checkpoint means the group are liable to dq.
There are appeal procedures and justifiable "excuses", such as being held up by a ruling on a checkpoint hole. In actuality, the groups police themselves on pace, and there are very few penalties applied. Once one group does receive a penalty, the word spreads like wildfire throughout the field and every player becomes more aware of pace.
This was implemented to replace the individual pace of play policy (which was totally ineffective) and eliminate rounds of 5+ hours. It has been very successful in keeping stroke play rounds (groups of three) under five hours, usually around 4:25. Most "time par" totals for groups of three are between 4:30 and 4:39.
Yes, it requires more volunteers, but it does work well and takes the pace of play emphasis off the referees.
That is a very brief summary, the policy can be seen here:
There are appeal procedures and justifiable "excuses", such as being held up by a ruling on a checkpoint hole. In actuality, the groups police themselves on pace, and there are very few penalties applied. Once one group does receive a penalty, the word spreads like wildfire throughout the field and every player becomes more aware of pace.
This was implemented to replace the individual pace of play policy (which was totally ineffective) and eliminate rounds of 5+ hours. It has been very successful in keeping stroke play rounds (groups of three) under five hours, usually around 4:25. Most "time par" totals for groups of three are between 4:30 and 4:39.
Yes, it requires more volunteers, but it does work well and takes the pace of play emphasis off the referees.
That is a very brief summary, the policy can be seen here:
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bobmac
Major Champion
Completely irrelevant to 'club competitions' that happen every week up and down the country
rulefan
Tour Winner
England Golf varies in that all players in the group may be put 'on the clock' and individual timings will be monitored.
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rulie
Head Pro
Understood, but posted it to show that "group pace of play" can be and is used successfully. It does make the players responsible for their pace of play.
bobmac
Major Champion
And my point was nobody should be forced to play at a speed decided by others in CLUB GOLF
D
Deleted member 15344
Guest
We have checkpoints on cards and also bringing in marshals during some comps to get people to improve their pace of play
We record at halfway the time they are taking to play 9 and if they have lost ground they are asked to make up the ground. Most groups are expected and asked to go around in between 4 hrs and 4 hrs 30
If they are ruining the experience for everyone else then why not? There are rules for other matters in clubs, if pace of play is causing a problem then something needs to be done.
rulie
Head Pro
It happens. At our club, the first two hours of morning tee times are expected to complete their rounds in less than 4 hours. At another club, each group is timed at start and finish (punch clock). If the round takes too long, players loose their tee time booking privilege for a few weeks.
bobmac
Major Champion
I don't care what you do on 'some comps', you are still forcing people to go round at an 'acceptable pace' decided by others.
As long as you have slow players mixed with fast players, you will have problems.
That's the whole point, they don't have to.
Look at the start of a marathon.
The elite fast runners go out first with the slower 'Charity runners' go out towards the end.
Everyone is happy, the fast competitors aren't held up and the slow coaches aren't forced to complete the course under a certain time, decided by others.
So they are punished because maybe they can't walk that fast?
D
Deleted member 15344
Guest
What’s wrong with forcing people to go around at an acceptable pace of play ?
Should clubs just ignore any slow play issues and let members decide how long they go around the course
If someone can’t keep up with simple pace of play then they get in a buggy to keep up with the groups
One of biggest issues with golf clubs is slow play - it’s time people understand that their actions will have an affect on everyone within the field
bobmac
Major Champion
You mean everyone behind them?
