Membership in decline...

[Scadge]

I think the challenge is more about "colts" than "kids". We have lots of clubs with thriving junior sections and kids of a really good standard or simply a love of the game.

However, and forgive the generalisation, when they go to university as more kids are encouraged to do these days (could be subject of another thread as to why and does this really makes sense) or when they come back they don't have the money to keep the membership up or to come back to the game.

Quite rightly their parents are trying to help them keep the costs of longer schooling/university debts to a minimum (which with £9k a year fees is nigh on impossible) or may in many cases simply be unable to help financially.

The consequences of this are that there are a number of "lost years" between 18 and early thirties when having got kids only a few lucky folks are financially able to get back to the hobby that captivated them as kids. This is why the US golf clubs full membership often doesn't start until people get to 40.

On the other side of the financial divide we have huge youth unemployment amonst people without superior skills and living standards which have only gone down in a generation. I can't for the life of me think that the current elite image of golf would appeal to many of these people who are already excluded from normal society let alone the "top brass" (deliberately tongue in cheek)

 

[markgs]

Im 34 so by no stretch of the imagination an old man but when i was young around 12 years old i use to spend every spare minute of my life with my friends on the 9 hole pitch and putt golf course in my local park, sometime for 9am to 5pm. These days children are not allowed out by there parents fearing for there safety, They would rather be playing golf on a games console or watch dvds and fill there face full of junk food from the supermarket. My partners 8 year old is so un fit its unbelievable when i was that ages i was fit as a fiddle

 

[Yer Maw]

I think there is definitely a cross border difference here. In Scotland you can play at a great course for around 400-600 pounds per year and there are lots of them so you can pretty much always get a decent tee time because member ships are spread out. However I think land and business rates are significantly greater in England, hence the price difference for a bobby basic course is enormous (correct me please if I'm wrong). So you end up with people who can only afford to pay.

I think the elitist argument is a weak one, as I play in a club where it is mostly professionals and very successful people, but they are all good company on the course. We all mind our p's and q's for the most part, have good manners etc. but I've haven't yet played with anyone who is an elitist snob! I will at some point but that is not the reason for declining membership.

Getting the youngsters into the game and finsing the right club members to play along with them, go out for bounce games with them, have fun, a good crack and teach them good etiquette, fast play etc. and even maybe pass on some good wee tips.

Also offering flexible membership packages e.g. a reduced fee membership that gets you on at the traditional quiet times, or a membership plus pay as you play fee such as a fiver as it all adds up. Not tying people into year long memberships but offering loyalty incentives etc.

Also recognising that if they are struggling for staff, getting some members to help with the upkeep though that is maybe a bit of an ask, but part of creating a solid club culture is the club looking after people and people looking after the club.

Anyhow some of the sniping on this thread shows that there is an element of ******* syndrome that pervades golfs image. Do you think perhaps some of that is the reason some people think golf is for *****, because some people do think it?

 

[scratch]

I think there is definitely a cross border difference here. In Scotland you can play at a great course for around 400-600 pounds per year and there are lots of them so you can pretty much always get a decent tee time because member ships are spread out. However I think land and business rates are significantly greater in England, hence the price difference for a bobby basic course is enormous (correct me please if I'm wrong). So you end up with people who can only afford to pay.

I think you are pretty close there but it's not just down to rates etc. When I was a member at Gourock, people treated the clubhouse as their local and would pop up in the evening for a pint instead of going to a pub. In the winter they used to have a pub games league one night a week, a great way to get to know people other than out on the course. The income generated behind the bar was substantial, all helping to keep annual subs down. There seems to be much less of this down here in the south, typically a cup of tea or one drink then that's it till the following weekend.

 

[markgs]

I would be happy to pay double the green fees if it reduced the members to half and the course would not be so busy

 

[stevie_r]

I think there is definitely a cross border difference here. In Scotland you can play at a great course for around 400-600 pounds per year and there are lots of them so you can pretty much always get a decent tee time because member ships are spread out. However I think land and business rates are significantly greater in England, hence the price difference for a bobby basic course is enormous (correct me please if I'm wrong). So you end up with people who can only afford to pay.

You make some good points but if I can pick on the Scotland/ England divide, I think that is far too much of a simplified view. Within both countries there is a degree of disparity in this regard. For example have a look at the subs for some of the Northumberland Links/ cliff top courses, they look superb value to me. Around the Glasgow area there are some clubs which don't look great value when compared to some of the Dumfries and Galloway courses. To my mind that indicates that density of population is a big factor.

 

[USER1999]

I think you are pretty close there but it's not just down to rates etc. When I was a member at Gourock, people treated the clubhouse as their local and would pop up in the evening for a pint instead of going to a pub. In the winter they used to have a pub games league one night a week, a great way to get to know people other than out on the course. The income generated behind the bar was substantial, all helping to keep annual subs down. There seems to be much less of this down here in the south, typically a cup of tea or one drink then that's it till the following weekend.

Seriously?

The Saturday swindle I play in put about £250 across the bar every weekend. The afternoon swindle do similarly. I have no idea why you think that us southerners don't use the club house.

The club I belong to is a members club, it returns no profit, so the cost of membership is kept to the lowest figure. It's about £1300. Running costs are just higher down here. It's nothing to do with bar takings.

 

[scratch]

Seriously?

The Saturday swindle I play in put about £250 across the bar every weekend. The afternoon swindle do similarly. I have no idea why you think that us southerners don't use the club house.

The club I belong to is a members club, it returns no profit, so the cost of membership is kept to the lowest figure. It's about £1300. Running costs are just higher down here. It's nothing to do with bar takings.

I'm not saying that people don't spend money across the bar but it is very different here in the south. When is the last time you went to your club for a night out? It's quite a common thing for that to happen in Scotland. I used to spend more behind the bar of my club up there than I did in any bar in town. Every night the clubhouse would be busy. At my club down here there is hardly anyone in the clubhouse after about 6pm.

 

[Tiger]

I think the challenge is more about "colts" than "kids". We have lots of clubs with thriving junior sections and kids of a really good standard or simply a love of the game.

However, and forgive the generalisation, when they go to university as more kids are encouraged to do these days (could be subject of another thread as to why and does this really makes sense) or when they come back they don't have the money to keep the membership up or to come back to the game.

Quite rightly their parents are trying to help them keep the costs of longer schooling/university debts to a minimum (which with £9k a year fees is nigh on impossible) or may in many cases simply be unable to help financially.

The consequences of this are that there are a number of "lost years" between 18 and early thirties when having got kids only a few lucky folks are financially able to get back to the hobby that captivated them as kids. This is why the US golf clubs full membership often doesn't start until people get to 40.

On the other side of the financial divide we have huge youth unemployment amonst people without superior skills and living standards which have only gone down in a generation. I can't for the life of me think that the current elite image of golf would appeal to many of these people who are already excluded from normal society let alone the "top brass" (deliberately tongue in cheek)

Good point about the colts scadge. There is a club near me that offers reduced subs for under 40s and it's been very popular

 

[Akie]

I think the challenge is more about "colts" than "kids". We have lots of clubs with thriving junior sections and kids of a really good standard or simply a love of the game.

However, and forgive the generalisation, when they go to university as more kids are encouraged to do these days (could be subject of another thread as to why and does this really makes sense) or when they come back they don't have the money to keep the membership up or to come back to the game.

Quite rightly their parents are trying to help them keep the costs of longer schooling/university debts to a minimum (which with £9k a year fees is nigh on impossible) or may in many cases simply be unable to help financially.

The consequences of this are that there are a number of "lost years" between 18 and early thirties when having got kids only a few lucky folks are financially able to get back to the hobby that captivated them as kids. This is why the US golf clubs full membership often doesn't start until people get to 40.

On the other side of the financial divide we have huge youth unemployment amonst people without superior skills and living standards which have only gone down in a generation. I can't for the life of me think that the current elite image of golf would appeal to many of these people who are already excluded from normal society let alone the "top brass" (deliberately tongue in cheek)

I fall into that category, played a lot and was a member of a club till I was 18 and went to Uni when I couldnt afford it. It was till I was 26 and 4 years out of Uni to pick the game up again. Even now its take me 2 years to get playing regularly and finally just joined a club.

 

[richart]

I'm not saying that people don't spend money across the bar but it is very different here in the south. When is the last time you went to your club for a night out? It's quite a common thing for that to happen in Scotland. I used to spend more behind the bar of my club up there than I did in any bar in town. Every night the clubhouse would be busy. At my club down here there is hardly anyone in the clubhouse after about 6pm.

We have regular quiz nights, tribute bands etc.The Social committee is always trying to arrange interesting events. The Club also stays open for at least half an hour after it gets dark, so everyone can get a drink after their round. When I play in the evening there is usually a good number of locals using the bar. Hankley Common and Liphook close their clubhouses at 7.00, so you have to change in the car if you play in the evening. Not very sociable.

 

[pelican55]

I am in that quandry now,would like to join a club to get involved in all the comps,,club champs etc in reality to play competitve golf.
The course I am keen on is in Wokingham but the annual subs are £1800.00,can I justify that, what`s spinning around in my mind is will I get value for money,I will need to play a helleva lot of golf to justify that and as we all know golf in winter is like a lottery, not much chance.
I have been given the opportuinity to play a introductory round and then make up my mind.How do I know what the members are like, are they clicky?
Any suggestions?

 

[richart]

I am in that quandry now,would like to join a club to get involved in all the comps,,club champs etc in reality to play competitve golf.
The course I am keen on is in Wokingham but the annual subs are £1800.00,can I justify that, what`s spinning around in my mind is will I get value for money,I will need to play a helleva lot of golf to justify that and as we all know golf in winter is like a lottery, not much chance.
I have been given the opportuinity to play a introductory round and then make up my mind.How do I know what the members are like, are they clicky?
Any suggestions?

Which course is it ? There are a few on here around the Wokingham area that will probably be able to give you some feedback.

 

[pelican55]

Course I looked at was Sand Martins

 

[Tiger]

PM Homer pelican

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Course I looked at was Sand Martins

Don't do it. Apart from the membership fee there is a mandatory bar levy (approx £150) on top. The owner is a tool and it is run as a corporate and society cash cow midweek and members were regularly complaining about being unable to get the tee times they wanted. Its pre-booked times most of the time including weekends. The course itself is a bit marmite and two distinct nines. Decent practice facilities.

If I may be so bold may I suggest my place. Cheaper memberhsip fees, no bar levy and perhaps the biggest advantage is you can roll up and go out any time (except when competitions are going out). Ideal for evening knocks. If you fancy a knock let me know or check the website and see when the next membership open days is being held and have a look around. I'd be quite happy to sign you in for a round and propose you if you fancy it. PM me

 

[Big-Dog]

Just a thought but could it be the time it takes to do 18 holes especially if you have the budding pro in front of you who will take an age to hit the little white object?

Pricing can be very competitive now depending on which course you would like to join and as correctly stated before the kit can be competitively priced ( I got mine for a total of £200 including bag Ping putter).

However I am one of the early week-end brigade who liked to be finished for lunch so I have the rest of the day unless my son is playing football and it is then a tee off time of 15:00 so we do not get held up. on a good day a 4 ball at our course on comp day can still be round in three and a half hours but sometimes that has slipped to 4+ when a word with the offenders usually gets them back on side. We have also introduced play through holes at bottlenecks on par threes when the party in front are all on the green they wave the other people on the tee to hit off then continue, this has resulted in less hold ups.

A tightening of the slow play could then have more people playing but it then is how to get them interested to start, we have 3-4 foxes and rabbits days (golfers and none golfers putting) which is followed by a quiz in the 19th after showing the golf and also the good social side. More events to get people through the door initially is the key. Just a thought!

 

[G1BB0]

its not just golf its all sports/hobbies/pastimes

As a kid we played every sport - football, cricket & golf in summer, rugby (league... proper rugby), american football even. we played in school playgrounds, local fields anywhere we could. Nowadays where can kids play? Parents are all working as much as they can to make ends meet, kids are sitting on ps3/xbox360, facebook etc. We had a powercut once and ended up playing cards, the kids enjoyed it, as soon as it came back on they went back to their laptops/ipads/consoles.

Schools dont help either, everyone encouraged to take part, no 1st or 2nd as its the taking part that counts.

There werent many fat kids when I was at school, drop my youngest off and theres loads.

We need to encourage when they are young but too much emphasis on targets and unfortunately £££

 

[SammmeBee]

I'm not saying that people don't spend money across the bar but it is very different here in the south. When is the last time you went to your club for a night out? It's quite a common thing for that to happen in Scotland. I used to spend more behind the bar of my club up there than I did in any bar in town. Every night the clubhouse would be busy. At my club down here there is hardly anyone in the clubhouse after about 6pm.

Because there is nothing else to do in Scotland except for eating deep fried Mars bars..........

 

[richart]

I am in that quandry now,would like to join a club to get involved in all the comps,,club champs etc in reality to play competitve golf.
The course I am keen on is in Wokingham but the annual subs are £1800.00,can I justify that, what`s spinning around in my mind is will I get value for money,I will need to play a helleva lot of golf to justify that and as we all know golf in winter is like a lottery, not much chance.
I have been given the opportuinity to play a introductory round and then make up my mind.How do I know what the members are like, are they clicky?
Any suggestions?

As you are based in Farnborough, have you thought about joining the Army Club ? My Club can't be that far from you, and being a heathland course very rarely closes over the winter. Also courses this way are cheaper, our annual subs are £1300 from memory.