Membership in decline...
- Thread starter Tiger
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User20205
Money List Winner
+1 to this, sums it up more eloquently than I could :thup:
Hacker Khan
Yurt Dwelling, Yoghurt Knitter
I am a school governor and one of my specialised subjects is school PE. And I am afraid, despite what ever people may read in The Daily Mail, that statement is utter bilge.
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Hacker Khan
Yurt Dwelling, Yoghurt Knitter
But in your example one is playing a sport and one it watching a sport. Which are completely different. Memberships of clubs depends on people playing a sport not watching it. To get involved with and start playing football costs you about £5 to buy a ball. I used to manage and play for a Sunday league team and our subs were £3 a week I think. Getting involved in golf costs you a whole lot more.
User20205
Money List Winner
maybe not a compensation culture thing, maybe a teacher can't be arsed thing.
Does PE count towards ofsted etc ?
Hacker Khan
Yurt Dwelling, Yoghurt Knitter
And if it was shown on a free to air terestrial TV it proabably would have done wonders for the game....
And this is not an anti Sky rant, but a suggestion that the people who were actually watching that event unfold live on Sky Sports at the time it was on, were probably mostly made up of committed golfers.
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StrangelyBrown
Tour Winner
Very well written Chris.
louise_a
Money List Winner
Interesting about some of the comments about Blackley, I have played there a few times in interclub matches and its a nice club, its not the most interesting course but the members I have met are friendly and varied. Its not a council course as was suggested.
Akie is in the process of joining there so his comments would be interesting. Did he submit a letter from his employer for example?
Our course has around 600-700 members and top fees are £800 a year, we have someone who is visiting local schools trying to get kids interested in golf, we also do not interview new members, as part of a local council deal we get cheap rates and in return do not put restrictions on who can join.
Akie is in the process of joining there so his comments would be interesting. Did he submit a letter from his employer for example?
Our course has around 600-700 members and top fees are £800 a year, we have someone who is visiting local schools trying to get kids interested in golf, we also do not interview new members, as part of a local council deal we get cheap rates and in return do not put restrictions on who can join.
Robobum
Money List Winner
But that team would be raising moneys almost non stop to pay for pitch fees, kit, refs, registration, fines etc etc. your £3 doesn't cover that.
I played at a local 6 a side thing a couple of years ago - £5 per player for half an hour.
chrisd
Major Champion
Our football club has about 13 teams and we have raised and spent £85,000 this year. We charge membership at £20 for the year and approx. £5 per game all other income is from bar takings, donations, sponsorship, grants etc etc. In actual fact football locally is provided too cheap for what it costs.
Hacker Khan
Yurt Dwelling, Yoghurt Knitter
I know this is off topic but there are many reasons why PE is in decline in some schools. Schools are not actually ofsteded on specific subjects, but of course there is an emphasis in the ofsted evaluation and also in the school league tables on the key subjects. And PE is not one of those subjects.
So as schools will be judged by the inspectors and league tables on their results in certain areas, of course it is natural that schools will favour concentrating on those subjects. Whether this provides a rounded education for the pupil is another question. Some school realise that you can't just concentrate on the academic subjects as PE has many benefits such as the exercise part, giving a chance to kids who may not excel in the academic subjects etc etc. So they ensure a lot of PE is also provided.
Other factors include the work load of teachers. Again do not believe what you read, the vast majority of teachers do not just work 8.45 to 3.30 and then have 17 weeks off a year (yes of course there are some lazy teachers as there are in any profession, but it is rarer than the media portrays). There is a huge amount of paperwork, lesson planning and various other tasks to try and meet the latest fad policy from the government of the day. So this does not leave as much time for them to teach PE or run after school clubs as teachers used to have.
Money is also a critical factor. Schools are effectively businesses now, the aim is not to make a profit but they have to break even. And of course as we all know public finances are being squeezed so they have less money to spend on things such as sporting equipment or playing fields (if they have one left that has not been sold off already). Some schools buy in external providers to run PE sessions, indeed the government recently made some extra money available for primary schools to do that. But some schools that do not prioritise PE opt to spend their money elsewhere.
But as I have said, not doing PE due to compensation culture is just a Daily mail sponsored myth. I would not be surprised if a school has used that as an excuse, and there may well have been some bonkers case where a school has had to pay out lots of money to a kid injured doing cross country. But those are very isolated and irrelevant examples.
CliveW
Tour Winner
Blairgowrie is actively involved in the Clubgolf scheme as featured on SkySports. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDgrUx_6w8I
cs1986
Club Champion
I dont know if this has already been said but I think if golf was on 'normal TV' more (channels 1-5) then I think more people would take an interest in it and want to play. Im sure you have all noticed how the courses suddenly get busy when the UK Open is on TV. Maybe if say bbc2 screened a few more golf tournaments a year then more people would be talking about it. They dont even show that much coverage of the Masters anymore, its all highlight programmes.
Maybe Im wrong and most people have Sky, but it just seems that whenever there is a big sporting event (of any sport) on terrestrial TV then it gets alot more media coverage and average Joe's talking about it.
Surely Channel 5 could bid for a European tour highlights package....they show naff all else worth watching!
Maybe Im wrong and most people have Sky, but it just seems that whenever there is a big sporting event (of any sport) on terrestrial TV then it gets alot more media coverage and average Joe's talking about it.
Surely Channel 5 could bid for a European tour highlights package....they show naff all else worth watching!
S
Snelly
Guest
Quite an interesting thread this. Some utter garbage written but a couple of gems from Chris and PNWokingham that reflect my view.
Golf courses exist in Britain for all tastes, budgets and preferences. Find one that suits what you can afford, has what you want and membership should be an enjoyable experience. When you have reached this point, try your best to stop slating the other clubs that have traditions and rules that you find objectionable.
The best courses I have played at are the ones that suit me. I know what I like and choose to play at places with the ambience, course standard and style that I like. This does not mean expensive places either. For example I don't like or ever want to go back to: Loch Lomond, The Belfry or Walton Heath which are all costly and quite well thought of. Conversely, I love Hayling Island, Liphook, Blackmoor and West Sussex. None of which are expensive particularly but they fit what I want from a club. I like old courses with history, tradition, lots of rules, dress codes, good food and a decent wine list. I also appreciate that some people really dislike some of this old school stuffiness and that is fine. The fact is though that the clubs I go to that have these elements in abundance, are full of like minded members and have waiting lists to join. They serve their niche very well and are very successful indeed.
If you want to go to some of the best courses in the country then you need to abide by their rules as they won't change and demand far outstrips supply.
If you want to wear jeans, use your phone in the lounge, drink lots of Stella and watch Sky Sports in the club with your pals then that is absolutely fine. Plenty of clubs meet your requirements.
Find what you want and stick with it, without worrying about what others are doing. That is my view. Membership is only in decline at places that are failing to meet the need of their clientele, whoever that may be.
Golf courses exist in Britain for all tastes, budgets and preferences. Find one that suits what you can afford, has what you want and membership should be an enjoyable experience. When you have reached this point, try your best to stop slating the other clubs that have traditions and rules that you find objectionable.
The best courses I have played at are the ones that suit me. I know what I like and choose to play at places with the ambience, course standard and style that I like. This does not mean expensive places either. For example I don't like or ever want to go back to: Loch Lomond, The Belfry or Walton Heath which are all costly and quite well thought of. Conversely, I love Hayling Island, Liphook, Blackmoor and West Sussex. None of which are expensive particularly but they fit what I want from a club. I like old courses with history, tradition, lots of rules, dress codes, good food and a decent wine list. I also appreciate that some people really dislike some of this old school stuffiness and that is fine. The fact is though that the clubs I go to that have these elements in abundance, are full of like minded members and have waiting lists to join. They serve their niche very well and are very successful indeed.
If you want to go to some of the best courses in the country then you need to abide by their rules as they won't change and demand far outstrips supply.
If you want to wear jeans, use your phone in the lounge, drink lots of Stella and watch Sky Sports in the club with your pals then that is absolutely fine. Plenty of clubs meet your requirements.
Find what you want and stick with it, without worrying about what others are doing. That is my view. Membership is only in decline at places that are failing to meet the need of their clientele, whoever that may be.
Hacker Khan
Yurt Dwelling, Yoghurt Knitter
Anyway, back to the original question, as a member of the communist party I have my views. 
I think golf has a big perception problem. I would argue that golf is perceived as being sexist, expensive, elitist, very time consuming, has many barriers to entry, not very inclusive and full of petty rules.
Now I am sure many people can point out examples of where it is welcoming to women, very cheap, full of all classes and has a wide ethnic mix, you can get round very quickly, it is open to anyone no matter what they are wearing and actually the rules are pretty straight forwards. But those people generally tend to be existing members of golf clubs.
But on the other hand I and others in this thread pointed to many examples of the opposite. And these people tend to be non members of clubs and the people golf needs to attract.
I would argue that golf, and in particular golf clubs, generally do a pretty poor job in marketing themselves and making the game inclusive and open to all. And I think there is a lot of truth in the fact already mentioned in other posts that some clubs have a vested interest in keeping people out of their club.
Of course there are a lot of great initiatives going on to get people involved, and there are some very progressive clubs out there trying their best to modernise the game. But the game, including ruling bodies, clubs, players and the golf media itself needs to try and change the perception of the game and make it more attractive and to try and remove as many barriers to entry as possible.
To highlight this I would ask you to watch the trophy giving ceremony at the Open this year. Just look at the cast of characters that will be paraded in front of the watching word and I would imagine the highest TV audience for a golf event in this country this year, seeing as it's the only one left on terrestrial TV, to do the presentation ceremony. Look how they dress, listen to how they speak, think what image they are portraying of golf and the type of person that the game wants to attract. And think to yourself, do these gentleman look like the kind of people who can change the perception of the game?
I think golf has a big perception problem. I would argue that golf is perceived as being sexist, expensive, elitist, very time consuming, has many barriers to entry, not very inclusive and full of petty rules.
Now I am sure many people can point out examples of where it is welcoming to women, very cheap, full of all classes and has a wide ethnic mix, you can get round very quickly, it is open to anyone no matter what they are wearing and actually the rules are pretty straight forwards. But those people generally tend to be existing members of golf clubs.
But on the other hand I and others in this thread pointed to many examples of the opposite. And these people tend to be non members of clubs and the people golf needs to attract.
I would argue that golf, and in particular golf clubs, generally do a pretty poor job in marketing themselves and making the game inclusive and open to all. And I think there is a lot of truth in the fact already mentioned in other posts that some clubs have a vested interest in keeping people out of their club.
Of course there are a lot of great initiatives going on to get people involved, and there are some very progressive clubs out there trying their best to modernise the game. But the game, including ruling bodies, clubs, players and the golf media itself needs to try and change the perception of the game and make it more attractive and to try and remove as many barriers to entry as possible.
To highlight this I would ask you to watch the trophy giving ceremony at the Open this year. Just look at the cast of characters that will be paraded in front of the watching word and I would imagine the highest TV audience for a golf event in this country this year, seeing as it's the only one left on terrestrial TV, to do the presentation ceremony. Look how they dress, listen to how they speak, think what image they are portraying of golf and the type of person that the game wants to attract. And think to yourself, do these gentleman look like the kind of people who can change the perception of the game?
bluewolf
Money List Winner
Snelly, we may not agree on some/most/almost all things
but this post echos the point I have been trying to make throughout this thread. There's a club out there for everyone. The only clubs that will fail, are the ones who fail to cater fully for their intended market.I'm equally as happy playing Birkdale, as I am playing Haigh Hall. I played at a lovely course in Cheshire last week where membership appeared to be by invite only. I didn't feel, or be made to feel, out of place. Every club has a specific set of rules. If you don't like their rules then you don't have to play. If enough people don't like their rules, then the club will struggle.
bluewolf
Money List Winner
A bit like the FA Cup presentation then? See, I can shoehorn the FA Cup into any thread......
USER1999
Grand Slam Winner
Would the open presentation be more suitable with a couple of builders vans in the back ground, and the captain of the r an a wearing jeans with half his arse showing?
Birchy
Money List Winner
Exactly the sort of reply i was about to post :rofl:
S
Snelly
Guest
Ticker tape, deafening celebratory music, flame cannons, fireworks, cheerleaders and sponsors advertising boards too...!