Membership in decline...

bluewolf said:
Just out of interest, how much would you be willing to pay to play at Birkdale, Lytham, Hillside etc?
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Personally no more than 5 to 600, any more and i couldn't justify it, or indeed afford it. Then again my personal transport is a van so i probably wouldn't be allowed to use the carpark :o.
I believe there's a club not far from your neck of the woods with a similar rediculous rule. Welcome to the classless society.
 
I have often parked my works (and very, very old) Ford Fiesta van at Wentworth. You always get a good space because the gap left between a Bentley in Bay 1 and Ferrari in bay 3 means that the Range Rovers don't fit!
 
blackpuddinmonster said:
Personally no more than 5 to 600, any more and i couldn't justify it, or indeed afford it. Then again my personal transport is a van so i probably wouldn't be allowed to use the carpark :o.
I believe there's a club not far from your neck of the woods with a similar rediculous rule. Welcome to the classless society.
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Sorry, I meant to play it as a guest, not a member.

The club you're talking about is Ashton. It's a nice course with very traditional values. It still has a large joining fee (which I disagree with.) I believe that the membership is fairly full which allows it to keep the joining fee. Also, everybody who joins, knows the rules before they join. If they don't agree, then they can look elsewhere.

As i've said, I don't consider this elitist. It's just catering to one segment of the market. If they restricted access based on personal wealth, occupation, skin colour, sex etc then I would have a problem with it. They let 6inchcup join, so the standards can't be that high..;)
 
I think that increasing reciprocity would help. I would love to be a member at a proper members course. This would mean I could play pretty much when I wanted and get involved in comps etc. However, I don't think that membership offers value as I would hardly play in the winter and £800 odd for 6 months golf isn't brilliant. I do think, that better reciprocal arrangements with other clubs would be more attractive to members. The choice to play other courses in the area at competitive prices will get people through the doors.
 
gryffindor said:
I have often parked my works (and very, very old) Ford Fiesta van at Wentworth. You always get a good space because the gap left between a Bentley in Bay 1 and Ferrari in bay 3 means that the Range Rovers don't fit!
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Yup, my 10yr old, 120k miles Nissan has parked in some very exclusive carparks without any issues. They must think that i'm some sort of eccentric..
 
blackpuddinmonster said:
Personally no more than 5 to 600, any more and i couldn't justify it, or indeed afford it. Then again my personal transport is a van so i probably wouldn't be allowed to use the carpark :o.
I believe there's a club not far from your neck of the woods with a similar rediculous rule. Welcome to the classless society.
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My Personal transport is also a Van

The van has been parked on the car parks of Royal Lytham, Royal Liverpool, Formby, Hillside, West Lancs and other quality courses.

Ive never had a problem with turning up in such a vehicle, and I've never been looked at in such a manner that made me feel uncomfortable. I've enjoyed playing all the above courses and never felt unwelcome.
 
Captainron said:
I think that increasing reciprocity would help. I would love to be a member at a proper members course. This would mean I could play pretty much when I wanted and get involved in comps etc. However, I don't think that membership offers value as I would hardly play in the winter and £800 odd for 6 months golf isn't brilliant. I do think, that better reciprocal arrangements with other clubs would be more attractive to members. The choice to play other courses in the area at competitive prices will get people through the doors.
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With use of the "County Book "you can now play at greatly reduced rates nationwide ( well so i'm lead to believe as not had a chance yet)
 
bluewolf said:
Sorry, I meant to play it as a guest, not a member.

The club you're talking about is Ashton. It's a nice course with very traditional values. It still has a large joining fee (which I disagree with.) I believe that the membership is fairly full which allows it to keep the joining fee. Also, everybody who joins, knows the rules before they join. If they don't agree, then they can look elsewhere.

As i've said, I don't consider this elitist. It's just catering to one segment of the market. If they restricted access based on personal wealth, occupation, skin colour, sex etc then I would have a problem with it. They let 6inchcup join, so the standards can't be that high..;)
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The van comment was a bit facitious, still i didn't realise there were so many people driving around in vans and borderline mot failures at these posh gaffs. Perhaps if your greenfees were a bit lower....? :whistle:

Bluewolf you don't reguard this as elitist but i do. It is a restriction based on my personal wealth. If i could afford to run two vehicles i would, but i can't. There are still plenty of clubs around who refuse full privalages to ladies, and if my occupation is no barrier then why do some clubs ask for a letter of reccomendation of your employer?
Its these attitudes that still persist that put so many people of the game. The argument "you know the rules before you join" is wrong. I'am sorry bluewolf but this attitude is appaphetic at best, these places are prehistoric and run by dinosaurs, and need to go the same way they went imho.
 
To my mind golf always has been (and always will be) the sport you play when you can't do anything a bit more interesting...Don't get me wrong, I love it, but when I was younger I'm glad that I played football, cricket and squash instead while I was still fit enough and good enough to enjoy them.

I don't think that getting youth in is necessarily the answer. They just don't have the cash or the time to play. Golf clubs might be better off offering deals/partnerships etc with organisations such as those I've listed above to make sure as many of the late twenties/early thirties sports-playing demographic as possible continue their sporting interests into golf instead of descending into BandQ/sky/boozer entropy.

Of course, the fact that the part of that demographic which didn't go to a decent public school is now being slaughered to keep the banksters afloat doesn't help, but that's another thread...
 
Interesting to see lots of comments about cost, it's got to be a big factor for the younger age group. It's all well and good getting youngsters into the sport, at our club the membership is only £20, but then they turn 18 and the price rockets up to £625! Not to mention many don't have a car so getting to the course is a problem (and those with wheels have been financially crippled by insurance). Then you have a bit more cash in your mid 20s but you're trying to buy a house/start a family. Once you've done the latter, time is at a premium until the kids are a bit older by which time you're in your 40s and you fit the profile of 'the younger golfer' surrounded by octogenarians...

If I hadn't gotten ill there is no way I'd be playing golf. I honestly have no idea what to do about it but I think Bill Elliott's suggestion of adding £2 a year to all golf subs as a levy for the Golf Foundation is a good start, but to reap the benefits clubs need to do a bit more than allowing jeans in the clubhouse...
 
blackpuddinmonster said:
Blackley near us. If there's one up here there must be others.
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According to the website it is optional and only then as a backup if you don't have a proposer or a letter of introduction from a previous club. From what I can see it's a council course, can't see them turning any applications down unless you are on the sex offenders register :whistle:
 
Its not elitist to charge more for a better product. I would love a Ferrari, but I can't afford one. Access isn't restricted on anything other than cost. I can't afford a Range Rover, an Audi A5 or a BMW X5. They are not elitist. They just cost more.

like you, I don't agree with restrictions based on occupation, sex, colour, religion etc. but that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about cost.
 
scratch said:
According to the website it is optional and only then as a backup if you don't have a proposer or a letter of introduction from a previous club. From what I can see it's a council course, can't see them turning any applications down unless you are on the sex offenders register :whistle:
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If your new to the game as per thread, how are you going to get a letter off a previous club? And why would you neccesarily know a current member? If not ,you need a letter of your employer. Why?? Its all pointless faff and puts people of playing.

As for the crack "from what i can see its a council course can't see them turning any applications down unless you are on the sex offenders register , not quite sure what your getting at. Care to extrapolate??
 
i am with bluewolf on this one,if i choose to join a club that asks for £1000 to join and the best part of a £1000 green fee per year what business is it of those that cant or do not wish to pay those prices,it is like most things in life you can either afford them or not BUT in nearly all cases there is normally a cheaper alternative,dont play at a private club but at a local council course,don't buy all the latest gear but use cheaper makes and same for clothes,just because some snotty nosed sink estate urchin doesn't find golf a sport for them so be it,if my club is anything to go buy the future looks ok as we have 60 or 70 young juniors who are a credit to their parents,and if some courses have to close due to lack of interest the others will pick up new members,golf is a minority sport and we should not forget that.
 
The main factor persoanlly for me growing up was simply cost of membership.

I'm lucky enough now to be able to utilise a corporate membership. It's enabled me to play locally and to a decent standard dropping from a 20 handicapper to 9.5 in just over 12 months.

If I didn't have the corporate membership I couldn't justify the £700 to either myself or my partner.

Over the years I've had this conversation with my old man and you've got to play a fair bit of gold to justify a membership rather than pay and play at courses.
 
bluewolf said:
Its not elitist to charge more for a better product. I would love a Ferrari, but I can't afford one. Access isn't restricted on anything other than cost. I can't afford a Range Rover, an Audi A5 or a BMW X5. They are not elitist. They just cost more.

like you, I don't agree with restrictions based on occupation, sex, colour, religion etc. but that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about cost.
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Which surely by definition makes it elitist??
Elitism- The belief that certain people of certain classes deserve favoured treatment by virtue of their percieved supperiority, social status or financial resources.
I'am sorry bluewolf, i've been told in the past that i make Tony Benn look like a supporter of Oswald Moseley, we'll probably never agree on this.
But you no what? Thats ok, because life would be boring if all agreed on everything. I think we can agree on this at least ? :cool:
 
therod said:
that's simply not true. the sport will always have a future, the point is that there are too many clubs due to a building boom in the 80's/90's it wouldn't hurt anyone if a few of these were returned to farmland. The membership is spread too thinly.
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On this point though surely if lots of clubs close this will cause a lack of competition therefore prices will go up further as people would have less choice so clubs might think 'Ahh we can get more out of those that want to play'. You might be happy to pay your fees now but what if all clubs nearby closed then your club doubled your fees? Would you think all those clubs closing were a good thing?

I think a lot of it is down to time, money, perception but also a lot of clubs are out of town so drink driving effects them, travel time, fuel costs effects them so as many have said it is not a simple answer and I don't think it is all about dress codes for sure.
 
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