Manufacturers tolerance levels....

[Airlie_Andy]

Just been watching a video on YouTube about fitting Drivers and the expert was saying that each manufacturer has certain tolerance levels that they will allow for each part of the club. So apparently if you buy an 8.5 degree loft driver from Taylormade it could actually be +\- 1.5 degrees different. The same goes for the flex of the shaft etc. So in theory you could go for a driver fitting for an RBZ driver and the head your testing with says it's 8.5 degrees loft but it's actually only 7 degrees and you choose a stiff flex shaft which you hit perfectly. They then order the club for you and when it arrives it says it's an 8.5 degree stiff flex RBZ driver but it's actually a 10 degree (still within the tolerance but now 3 degrees different to what you were testing originally) regular flex RBZ driver and you can't hit it for toffee! Is the only way to actually get a true custom fit to buy an adjustable driver that you can adjust to suit your swing once you've actually bought it and test the different shafts and actually purchase the exact shaft you get the best results with?

 

[DappaDonDave]

Just been watching a video on YouTube about fitting Drivers and the expert was saying that each manufacturer has certain tolerance levels that they will allow for each part of the club. So apparently if you buy an 8.5 degree loft driver from Taylormade it could actually be +\- 1.5 degrees different. The same goes for the flex of the shaft etc. So in theory you could go for a driver fitting for an RBZ driver and the head your testing with says it's 8.5 degrees loft but it's actually only 7 degrees and you choose a stiff flex shaft which you hit perfectly. They then order the club for you and when it arrives it says it's an 8.5 degree stiff flex RBZ driver but it's actually a 10 degree (still within the tolerance but now 3 degrees different to what you were testing originally) regular flex RBZ driver and you can't hit it for toffee! Is the only way to actually get a true custom fit to buy an adjustable driver that you can adjust to suit your swing once you've actually bought it and test the different shafts and actually purchase the exact shaft you get the best results with?

That's got to be pony. If its not then its a great way to make people buy the latest golf clubs.

 

[pbrown7582]

something similar to this was suggested whilst i was reading another thread (i think it was a review of precision golf) and the fitters there pointed out that there is a certain amount of varibility in shafts and heads.
Would make a bit of a mockery of a custom fit if you went and decided on a certain set up oly for it to arrive to the extreme of tolerance levels and be nothing like you were expecting. + or - 1.5 degreees is a big margin most standard drawing i use ay work are +/- 0.5 degree.

 

[USER1999]

I would have thought +\- half a degree would be easily within reach. I think there is more variation in the shafts, especially the cheaper end of the market.

This is one of the reasons that I quite like buying off the rack. You try hitting it, you buy the one you have just hit. If you try it, and then mail order of the internet, who knows what you are getting.

 

[Imurg]

I would have thought +\- half a degree would be easily within reach. I think there is more variation in the shafts, especially the cheaper end of the market.

This is one of the reasons that I quite like buying off the rack. You try hitting it, you buy the one you have just hit. If you try it, and then mail order of the internet, who knows what you are getting.

I'm sure I read somewhere that, even within the same brand of shaft - say, Aldila RIP, - there can be significant differences in the same flex shaft.
This is crazy.
Not a technically minded kinda Guy but I would have thought getting a tube of graphite to flex in the same way wouldn't be too difficult a process...?
Same with clubheads.
If it's true that Drivers can be up to 1.5 degrees out then the manufacturers are just taking us for a ride - no surprise there then........

 

[garyinderry]

far too big of a tolerance! the dear clubs must be precision engineered! where else can they justify charging 300 pounds plus! a salazenger 20pound special job might not be made to exacting specifications!

the fact that drivers stipulate what loft they have should mean its necessary to be made to tight tolerances!

 

[MadAdey]

I do find this very hard to believe looking at it from an Engineering point of view. There has to be tolerances in manufacturing but to say that an 8* driver could have an 18% tolerance in the manufacturing is outrageous. I agree that there is a variation and it maybe 5% which is still very high for manafacturing but 18%.....I find it hard to believe.

 

[MashieNiblick]

So apparently if you buy an 8.5 degree loft driver from Taylormade it could actually be +\- 1.5 degrees different. The same goes for the flex of the shaft etc. So in theory you could go for a driver fitting for an RBZ driver and the head your testing with says it's 8.5 degrees loft but it's actually only 7 degrees and you choose a stiff flex shaft which you hit perfectly. They then order the club for you and when it arrives it says it's an 8.5 degree stiff flex RBZ driver but it's actually a 10 degree (

I'm not an engineer but percentage wise a 1.5 degree error on an 8.5 degree loft would be huge (17%?) and I can't think that can be right.

Maybe in the olden days when clubs were bashed or ground into shape by hand that was true but given the manufacuring techniques these days I'd expect the tolerances to be far tighter than that. Just think how precise everything else on the club head is and how fakes always show up just how tight the QA is on proper gear.

May be the tolerance is 1.5% and the YouTube guy has just misunderstood it (i.e the "degree" of tolerance is 1.5)

Any engineers on here who could give a view?

 

[USER1999]

I am an engineer. I design stuff. I am qualified in design and production engineering.

End of line inspection for the club heads will include automated non contact measuring. I would be staggered if they set an acceptance level this wide. You might as well not measure anything.

As stated above, I think the variation will be in the shaft. Wrapping carbon is going to be a less accurate process than welding the head together, which again is probably precision jigged, and automated.

I wonder if the guy on the video is meaning effective loft at impact, rather than actual loft of the club head? This would be more effected by variations in the shaft.

 

[In_The_Rough]

Dont know about Driver lofts but I can confirm about the shafts. Being on a Golf Management/Performence studies course we have all kinds of guest speakers and so on. We had 1 chap in who shall remain anonymous that works in the fitiing industry that was on about shafts and the models that hit the shelves or what we buy are 2nd and 3rd grade or even worse sometimes the grade A stuff goes to Tour issue. So on that I would not be shocked if Driver lofts are out either.

 

[USER1999]

I also wonder if the guy in the video is measuring a club head that is deliberately out. As Ethan has pointed out, Ping are notorious for adding loft to drivers. If you measured a supposedly 9.5 degree Ping, and found it to be 11 degrees, you would think that it was out by 1.5 degrees. If you measured 1000 Ping 9.5 degree drivers, you might find that they are all 11 degrees, ± 2%, which would not be so bad. It is just Ping policy to mark them 9.5.

 

[HawkeyeMS]

I'm not an engineer but percentage wise a 1.5 degree error on an 8.5 degree loft would be huge (17%?) and I can't think that can be right.

Maybe in the olden days when clubs were bashed or ground into shape by hand that was true but given the manufacuring techniques these days I'd expect the tolerances to be far tighter than that. Just think how precise everything else on the club head is and how fakes always show up just how tight the QA is on proper gear.

May be the tolerance is 1.5% and the YouTube guy has just misunderstood it (i.e the "degree" of tolerance is 1.5)

Any engineers on here who could give a view?

I'm not an engineer (I did a degree in Engineering degree but I'm no engineer) but it's actually worse than that, it's 17% +\- which actually means there is 3degrees in which the club could be considered in tolerance. I wouldn't have thought you'd have to be particularly skilled to get an 8.5 degree driver with 3 degrees. Seems way too high to me

 

[thecraw]

Tolerence level are true from what I'm lead to believe due to mass maufacturing.

 

[HawkeyeMS]

Tolerence level are true from what I'm lead to believe due to mass maufacturing.

Mass manufacturing or not, I still find it hard to believe the tolerance is so high. People in this world mass manufacture stuff with tolerance much lower than that.

It does however raise another question related to custom fit. Presumably, they measure the angle of each club which means they could use the more accurate ones for the custom fit builds and the less accurate for off the shelf? They probably don't but it is an option.

 

[garyinderry]

i have studied engineering as well and id be shocked if this was the case. this would make a good piece for gm mag to investiate further and clear this up once and for all! this would have made a more intresting final year project than the rubber one i did! damm!

 

[USER1999]

Tolerence level are true from what I'm lead to believe due to mass maufacturing.

Contrary to popular belief, tolerances tend to be better for mass manufactured items than they are for hand made one offs. For a one off, things can be hand fettled, so parts don't need to be as accurate. For mass manufacture, to ensure that every combination of parts fit together, parts have to be very accurate.

 

[Ethan]

This is old news. I think tests of samples of clubs have shown that the tolerance tends to be asymmetrical, so you are more likely to get a club that is +1* than one which is -1*. Perhaps they set the spec range for 9.5 degrees as 10+/- 1 or something like that. Pros have their clubs carefully measured.

The same applies to some extent with shafts. TT DG are made to a certain spec, say for stiff flex, but then sorted by weight into S200, S300, S400 and failed spec, so there will be S300 shafts that are almost S200, and others that are almost S400. Again, the pros have their weighed and frequency matched precisely.

 

[DaveM]

Maybe this is why? I have always had TT DG R300 shafts in my irons, even when I was younger and hit them harder than I do now. But This last set has TT DG XP S300 shafts in, they are the best I have hit. Could not figure why I should now have stiffer shaft?

 

[wull]

i find it hard to believe that they would be out as much as that but if they are then they are royally taking the p*%s!!!!!!!!

 

[Alex1975]

Link to that youtube video please.


Cant be that hard to measure the face angle of a driver? Is this the same for irons?