Manifestos, Mandates and Mendacity

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

You voted Conservative this year. They tell us that as a policy was in the manifesto and the electorate has given them a mandate, then they must deliver the policy - or are they being rather mendacious in saying that?

As a Conservative voter do you expect the government to deliver everything that was in the manifesto? What do you do if they don't deliver everything - will you hold their feet to the fire? Or did you vote for them without really knowing or supporting everything that was in their manifesto; and are thus not that bothered if some things don't come to pass.

Surely it cannot always be essential to deliver the full manifesto - if so then stop falling back on that argument and try and give us the common sense to understand that - despite you best intentions - some things just aren't as possible to do as might have been thought.

Listening to JHunt yesterday on the 7-day NHS, he kept falling back on 'it was in the manifesto - we are expected to deliver it' Really? Could they not just say that they tried but when they looked deeper they found it wouldn't work. I'm sure an electorate - grateful for all that the Conservative government is achieving at the moment - will cut them some slack.

 

[Hobbit]

I voted Conservative because I like the colour blue.


Actually, if it was in a manifesto I'd expect them to push it through as policy. And I agree with a 7 day NHS. Not achievable without lots of money being thrown at it, but I 100% agree with it. You can't pick and choose when you're ill... "oh, my appendics is grumbling... must wait till Monday."

 

[Fyldewhite]

I didn't vote conservative but all politicians from all sides will state that a manifesto commitment is a "cornerstone" of what they were elected to do.......except when they can't deliver it or don't even try to deliver it......all part of the game. But to be fair, they can't win can they. If they say one thing then reconsider they are pilloried for a massive U-turn so it's no surprise they play the "manifest commitment" card whenever they can.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I voted Conservative because I like the colour blue.


Actually, if it was in a manifesto I'd expect them to push it through as policy. And I agree with a 7 day NHS. Not achievable without lots of money being thrown at it, but I 100% agree with it. You can't pick and choose when you're ill... "oh, my appendics is grumbling... must wait till Monday."

OK - so you expect them to implement everything in the manifesto - no ifs no buts, and regardless of what those affected by any policy might think. So government says Tough. It was in the manifesto - it must be delivered - if you don't like it blame those who voted for us. That's how it works I guess.

 

[MegaSteve]

I am waiting on them not to deliver a third runway at Heathrow...

As promised by DaveCam himself...

 

[Foxholer]

The Mamifesto is a commitment/promise, so they would have to have a bloody good excuse to not implement what's in it!

That doesn't mean it won't be a shambolic piece of legislation that turns out to be a disaster or that it will actually be a good idea in the first place, or even actually has some sort of resemblance to what they told the electorate would happen all those years ago!

They are politicians! Mendacity is part of their nature - if not part of their breeding!

 

[Hobbit]

OK - so you expect them to implement everything in the manifesto - no ifs no buts, and regardless of what those affected by any policy might think. So government says Tough. It was in the manifesto - it must be delivered - if you don't like it blame those who voted for us. That's how it works I guess.

Yes, pretty much. Don't forget, some people will have voted for them based on some of the things in the manifesto. And just because you think "tough" doesn't mean that someone else does. They might actually want it.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Yes, pretty much. Don't forget, some people will have voted for them based on some of the things in the manifesto. And just because you think "tough" doesn't mean that someone else does. They might actually want it.

Indeed I am fully aware that many folk will want something based upon their own self interests - regardless of the impact it might have on others.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

I would expect manifesto promises to be kept. They are why you vote for a party. Now where things change is that you can adapt, alter pledges etc to suit changing times, improve the policy. Pledges usually need tightening or improving when it comes down to the nitty gritty. That is essential. The gist should remain the same though. If not then you have been cheated.

 

[CheltenhamHacker]

Indeed I am fully aware that many folk will want something based upon their own self interests - regardless of the impact it might have on others.

How did I know it would turn into this standard comment from yourself before long.

Tory votes = selfish, Labour voters = saviours of humanity.

Now we've stated that, you don't have to mention it again.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

How did I know it would turn into this standard comment from yourself before long.

Tory votes = selfish, Labour voters = saviours of humanity.

Now we've stated that, you don't have to mention it again.

Who mentioned Labour? In fact I merely agreed with you that many people vote out of self interest. Which is fine and dandy.

Point was about delivering full manifesto and whether voters basically demand it of their government - regardless. Is there room to step back from a manifesto promise without pain if the government realises the error of their ways - despite what those who voted for them might still want.

To be honest I am not sure that the 7-day NHS was one of the manifesto promises that the Tories trumpeted. Maybe it was - but I don't recall much beyond austerity and £12Bn cuts.

 

[Hobbit]

Who mentioned Labour? In fact I merely agreed with you that many people vote out of self interest. Which is fine and dandy.

Point was about delivering full manifesto and whether voters basically demand it of their government - regardless. Is there room to step back from a manifesto promise without pain if the government realises the error of their ways - despite what those who voted for them might still want.

To be honest I am not sure that the 7-day NHS was one of the manifesto promises that the Tories trumpeted. Maybe it was - but I don't recall much beyond austerity and £12Bn cuts.

Agreed with who? Its Cheltenham's first post in the thread.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Agreed with who? Its Cheltenham's first post in the thread.

yes - sorry...I meant I was agreeing with you - not Cheltenham's

 

[Hobbit]

I think its a bit more complex than who voted for who for what reasons. I want political parties to 'honour' their manifesto because that is (almost) what they are promising those that vote for them. However, what if someone(me) voted for them because they are, in my opinion, the best of a bad lot. I preferred more Cons manifesto 'promises' than Labour 'promises.'

Should they change their minds mid flow? If circumstances change, would anyone want them not to change.

 

[sev112]

So much easier being a Utopian Anarchist Communist - we don't have to worry about these things

PS what were those great things the Conservative govt are apparently delivering ? Only obvious good thing they've done in recent times is shift Gove away from education where he can't cause any more grief

 

[chrisd]

I think that a lot of us were rightly brassed off when the last manifesto was ditched because they went into coalition. Everyone was saying that we got the result we wanted simply because the vagaries of the system threw up a no overall majority, the fact was we didn't vote for a coalition and a freedom for the parties to both ditch their manifesto's

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I think its a bit more complex than who voted for who for what reasons. I want political parties to 'honour' their manifesto because that is (almost) what they are promising those that vote for them. However, what if someone(me) voted for them because they are, in my opinion, the best of a bad lot. I preferred more Cons manifesto 'promises' than Labour 'promises.'

Should they change their minds mid flow? If circumstances change, would anyone want them not to change.

That's fine - I that I get. Then what if a government realises when looking into implementing a manifesto promise that the actual impact of what they had promised would be greater than they expected. Is a government allowed to step away - or must they proceed regardless (I know this is very hypothetical). They can use any other reason they want - but from what I hear here is that they would not be expected, and hence do not have to, implement every policy in their manifesto if they can give good reasons for not doing so. And so if a government can step away then they should not use 'it's in the manifesto' as a reason for implementing a policy. So dear JH - don't give me that as a reason for what you plan for the 7-day NHS - if you believe in it - do it - and don't pretend you do it so as not to let down the electorate who voted for you.

 

[Ethan]

I You can't pick and choose when you're ill... "oh, my appendics is grumbling... must wait till Monday."

Oh dear. You have no idea about provision in the current NHS or what Hunt is trying to do. If your appendix starts to grumble on Saturday evening, you can have it out that night. Always have been able to.

The data cited by Hunt about excess deaths has been shown to be rubbish. Even if it were true, all he is proposing is to distribute them over the rest of the week. Every extra doctor shift st the weekend is one fewer during the week. And what about lab staff, theatre staff, outpatient staff etc etc. Not a penny available for those.

7 day working is to show private healthcare companies that the assets of the NHS can be sweated.

I totally support the junior doctors and hope they strike. They have been messed around for decades and Hunt's latest promise is simply his biggest lie to date. Hunt is responsible for the exodus of doctors overseas. This winter is going to break the NHS.

 

[Hobbit]

Oh dear. You have no idea about provision in the current NHS or what Hunt is trying to do. If your appendix starts to grumble on Saturday evening, you can have it out that night. Always have been able to.

7 day working is to show private healthcare companies that the assets of the NHS can be sweated.

I totally support the junior doctors and hope they strike. They have been messed around for decades and Hunt's latest promise is simply his biggest lie to date. Hunt is responsible for the exodus of doctors overseas. This winter is going to break the NHS.

Hahahahahaha - having had my appendix out on a Friday night, I think I have a pretty good idea about provision. Having been called in many times to theatres or ICU I know that in an emergency, pretty much all of the facilities needed are available. What isn't available is Outpatients clinics, and at weekends how many theatres are running lists. Nice idea to have more up-time but...

7 day working, without at least a 40% increase in budgets, is pie in the sky. Extra clinic time would mean extra theatre time would mean extra ward time. All of which would need extra staff. It isn't going to happen anywhere near the level of sound bite JH has been spouting.

As for this winter is going to break the NHS... have you taken to writing the headlines for the Express?

 

[Sweep]

I do expect parties of all political persuasions to deliver on their manifesto once they are elected. TBH I would go further and enshrine it into law that they do so. That way, they may be a bit more careful about what they promise and how else are those who don't blindly support a particular party supposed to decide who to vote for? I think it is wrong that parties can potentially get into government on promises that can be ditched the next day.
I remember the smoking ban, for example. Labour promised they would ban smoking but allow smoking rooms. They were quite specific. Once elected, they decided to have a debate on how far the ban should go. Whether you agree with it or not (and I do) this was not what people had voted for.