Managing our 8 to 15 H/Cap League when WHS is introduced

[cliveb]

i know what my handicap is at the moment, if i went and played at another course i would have to look at bits of paper to see what i should play off there

Try looking at this from another angle.
The new WHS will make handicaps adjust more rapidly to reflect a player's current form.
And it will also make playing handicaps at differing courses more accurately reflect the player's ability, so it'll be fairer in competitions.
These are both laudable aims, yes?

Sometimes you just have accept that in order to improve a system, it might get a bit more complicated - but maybe it's a price worth paying.

 

[patricks148]

Try looking at this from another angle.
The new WHS will make handicaps adjust more rapidly to reflect a player's current form.
And it will also make playing handicaps at differing courses more accurately reflect the player's ability, so it'll be fairer in competitions.
These are both laudable aims, yes?

Sometimes you just have accept that in order to improve a system, it might get a bit more complicated - but maybe it's a price worth paying.

sure, but it just seems far more complicated IMO. in the UK most of golf for handicap is in comps. if i turn up at an open at the moment i know what by handicap is and what score i need to shoot to make buffer etc. The host club with the new system i assume will have to work it out for you and with no buffers anymore it will be harder to work what i have to shoot now.

lets not pretend this new system is going to easier or better, its simply to allow elite players to get a lower handicap to compete and get into comps dominated by yanks with artif low handicaps

 

[Swango1980]

Try looking at this from another angle.
The new WHS will make handicaps adjust more rapidly to reflect a player's current form.
And it will also make playing handicaps at differing courses more accurately reflect the player's ability, so it'll be fairer in competitions.
These are both laudable aims, yes?

Sometimes you just have accept that in order to improve a system, it might get a bit more complicated - but maybe it's a price worth paying.

Yes, I certainly agree to a point on that one. It will be better for players that are struggling in getting anywhere near 36 points for years, and only getting 0.1 back (although Continuous Review helped alleviate that somewhat, provided the handicap committee were implementing it reasonably well).

On flip side, you could have a player who is just having a rough 2-3 weeks, but happens to get a load of rounds in. His handicap could increase rapidly (up to 5 shots, but maybe more in magnitude of 2-3 shots in index, thus 3-4 shots in course handicap). Some might consider that a great jump in handicap for one of their competitors.

However, the good may well out weigh the bad, so I'm not going to fret too much about this type of thing until we are well under way with WHS. Patricks is right, it is definitely more complicated than the current system for the average golfer. And, I know they don't necessarily need to know any of it, as it can be simply said to just look up your Index on computer in morning, then convert using chart, job done... Well, in reality, there are some people that like to know what is going on, rather than simply accepting what the "black box" is telling them each morning.

Yes, people will get used to it. Not sure if these apps are to be rolled out immediately in November, but no doubt they will become more advanced and give players much more information and an idea of how their handicap may change depending on how they score in upcoming rounds, etc.

But, I suspect it will be a very steep learning curve. For the first year or two, I think there will be some hiccups along the way, both in terms of the perception of general golfers, but also how it is administered by handicap committees. I think a lot of effort has been made, by those willing to learn WHS up to now, to mainly just get their head around the actual calculations, and less attention, so far in how it may be administered and how to deal with specific scenarios that wouldn't occur under CONGU. Just read the multiple threads here on this forum. Many questions, much confusion, even after issues clearly explained by those that have had the benefit of being close to the development of the system. Forum users here are confused and/or concerned about certain aspects, and I'd imagine forum users are probably a bit more clued up about golf that most golfers, as they at least go to the effort of using forums like this to find out information. So, if we are having all these debates on here, imagine what it will be like come November when it impacts on all golfers, most of who don't have the attention span to remember the explanation they were given as to their options when declaring their ball unplayable, or where they can drop if they go in the water.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I'm thinking the system may be a bit different in Australia - but when out there last year and I rolled up at a club for a knock - I had a look at a notice each had posted up and for each of their tees I just looked across from my UK handicap to see what my handicap was for that course from the tees I was playing off. Dead easy really. Seems to me that the system (and so WHS) simply adjusted everyone's handicap slightly. And as everyone playing the course as their handicap adjusted consistently there is no issue. So if I play in a comp limited to 8 minimum and I find that I only get 7 shots - then so be it - everyone playing in the comp will have their handicap adjusted down similarly.

I think we just accept without detailed analysis. If it works elsewhere it'll work in the UK. It's just different.

 

[cliveb]

if i turn up at an open at the moment i know what by handicap is and what score i need to shoot to make buffer etc. The host club with the new system i assume will have to work it out for you and with no buffers anymore it will be harder to work what i have to shoot now.

Under the new system, only the uber-geeky who have a mental record of their last 20 rounds and can calculate de-sloped differentials in their heads will have any clue what effect the current round is going to do to their handicap. I personally think that's a good thing - maybe everyone will just relax a bit instead of worrying whether they will get cut or go up.

In any case, what's all this nonsense about "knowing what you need to shoot"? What you actually need to shoot is the lowest possible score you can manage.

 

[patricks148]

Under the new system, only the uber-geeky who have a mental record of their last 20 rounds and can calculate de-sloped differentials in their heads will have any clue what effect the current round is going to do to their handicap. I personally think that's a good thing - maybe everyone will just relax a bit instead of worrying whether they will get cut or go up.

In any case, what's all this nonsense about "knowing what you need to shoot"? What you actually need to shoot is the lowest possible score you can manage.

if you are playing well and have a good score, no issue but i and many of the guys of a sim handical like to know what we have to score comp to SSS to make buffer esp when you only get cut 0.1 per shot and go up the same

 

[cliveb]

if you are playing well and have a good score, no issue but i and many of the guys of a sim handical like to know what we have to score comp to SSS to make buffer esp when you only get cut 0.1 per shot and go up the same

Don't get me wrong - I'm as guilty as anyone else. If a round isn't going well, I start thinking about what I need to score to stay in buffer.
I'm looking forward to the new system so that I stop worrying about it.

 

[HickoryShaft]

So, if we are having all these debates on here, imagine what it will be like come November when it impacts on all golfers, most of who don't have the attention span to remember the explanation they were given as to their options when declaring their ball unplayable, or where they can drop if they go in the water.

You know my playing partners then?

This is spot on - I think there will be loads of confusion when it hits. I am fairly well clued up but there are still several bits that I want to understand better & see how it pans out, most of the rest of the guys I play with just turn up and play (I would say a few don't even know its changing)

Timing wise though it will be off season in the UK & Ireland with few (if any) comps being played at our club at least so the impact will be less severe & give people chance to get used to it.

Could be fun when I tell them the impact on their H/C for the next Saturday roll up though (all in good fun you understand!).

 

[IanM]

Confusion???? ... we've still got a bloke who drops from shoulder height and thinks he gets 5 mins to find his ball!!

 

[Swango1980]

Confusion???? ... we've still got a bloke who drops from shoulder height and thinks he gets 5 mins to find his ball!!

haha, a lot of golfers I play with think they have as long as it takes to find their ball. Most have got used to the knee height drops, except that it is such an awkward angle, you see some drop it from thigh height and others from it from ankle height

 

[Yorkshire Hacker]

The general consensus is positive, (looking at these posts), but far too many posts refer to the added complication. If there's one thing we don't need in order to attract new players, it's complication.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

haha, a lot of golfers I play with think they have as long as it takes to find their ball. Most have got used to the knee height drops, except that it is such an awkward angle, you see some drop it from thigh height and others from it from ankle height

I won't actually quote McEnroe - however - You...

 

[rulefan]

i know what my handicap is at the moment, if i went and played at another course i would have to look at bits of paper to see what i should play off there

Well a notice board in fact. But the rating and slope factors being brought in to the situation means that the handicap you play off on any course more accurately reflects your ability. A 10 capper may get round in 10 over SSS on an 'average' course but would struggle to play to the SSS at Carnoustie. Under WHS he will get the strokes needed to have a chance.

 

[rulefan]

if you are playing well and have a good score, no issue but i and many of the guys of a sim handical like to know what we have to score comp to SSS to make buffer esp when you only get cut 0.1 per shot and go up the same

Why worry about an odd sticky round. It almost certainly won't be featuring in your best 8 rounds so won't affect your handicap. You won't go up by 0.1 or any other figure.

 

[Swango1980]

England Golf had a bit of a laugh during their presentation. We have all heard the moans from golfers about 54 handicappers. Well, as the Index upper limit is 54 under WHS, that would mean they'd play off 73 at the Hotchkin Course Blue tees at Woodhall Spa. Bit of an extreme case, at my fairly average course, slope 133, they'd only play off 64.

 

[fundy]

England Golf had a bit of a laugh during their presentation. We have all heard the moans from golfers about 54 handicappers. Well, as the Index upper limit is 54 under WHS, that would mean they'd play off 73 at the Hotchkin Course Blue tees at Woodhall Spa. Bit of an extreme case, at my fairly average course, slope 133, they'd only play off 64.

lol, can just see the conversation heading to the next tee now. "what you get there John?" "9" "For how many?" "2" "2?" "Yeah SI1, i get 5 shots so makes it a par 9 for me, so put me down for 9 for 2 please"

 

[Swango1980]

lol, can just see the conversation heading to the next tee now. "what you get there John?" "9" "For how many?" "2" "2?" "Yeah SI1, i get 5 shots so makes it a par 9 for me, so put me down for 9 for 2 please"

Scratch golfer plays 54 Index handicapper in match play at Hotchkin blue tees. The scratch golfer is giving away 4 shots on 17 holes and 5 shots on the hardest hole. I'd love to see that, especially if the 54 Indexer shot a gross 85

 

[rulefan]

I'd love to see any 54 handicapper getting round that course without needing a packet of Hamlets to get out of the bunkers or getting back to the clubhouse before dark.

 

[Swango1980]

I'd love to see any 54 handicapper getting round that course without needing a packet of Hamlets to get out of the bunkers or getting back to the clubhouse before dark.

They could have 4 handicap shots a hole to get put of those bunkers

 

[williamalex1]

I'd love to see any 54 handicapper getting round that course without needing a packet of Hamlets to get out of the bunkers or getting back to the clubhouse before dark.

I'm heading in that direction , but doubt if I'll go up to 54 , hopefully my course management would prevent it.
On most courses fairway bunkers are usually just out of reach for me, from back tees.
Good course management could/should help avoid a few more bunkers, and the new 2 stroke penalty option to drop from bunkers should reduce the cigar smoking too .
Anyone want to play me of my upcoming 54 H/C