inc0gnito
Assistant Pro
Burn her! Burn her at the stake!
Burn her! Burn her at the stake!
Sweep
Journeyman Pro
It all depends on whether they colluded. For me you need reasonable proof they did before you impose the penalty. It seems the second player was ready to play and didn’t want to wait for the ball to be marked. It doesn’t seem to me that they colluded to leave the ball there as a backstop.
I can see why they would have a laugh about it, though the fist pump was ill advised.
I don’t see why player 1 would help out player 2 in this way in any case.
I can see why they would have a laugh about it, though the fist pump was ill advised.
I don’t see why player 1 would help out player 2 in this way in any case.
Had the ball hit her playing partners and kicked the other direction, away from the hole would she have been slated?
If the ball isn't obstructing my line i'll play on. As mentioned several times, the intention is to hole the ball, not play snooker with it, golf is hard enough as it is.
If the ball isn't obstructing my line i'll play on. As mentioned several times, the intention is to hole the ball, not play snooker with it, golf is hard enough as it is.
Last edited:
Wolf
Well-known member
Yep this for me to if it had hit her ball and finished miles away nobody cares. But because that didn't happen its cheating and the end of the world to a lot of people.
They had a giggle and fist bump after I can totally understand why because it's better to be light hearted and see the fun side than be the opposite like many want the vilified for.
If this happened with anyone in normal round people would have a giggle in the same way. I know I would.
It's never going to be penalised, as it's almost impossible to police.
Simple one. If in matchplay, does Ariya mark her ball in that exact scenario? The answer is yes, 100% of the time. She also does the same if this was the same hole on Sunday and they were tied for the lead. She should apply the same principles throughout, i.e. Protect the field.
The whole 'well she wasn't aiming for it' argument is irrelevant.
Simple one. If in matchplay, does Ariya mark her ball in that exact scenario? The answer is yes, 100% of the time. She also does the same if this was the same hole on Sunday and they were tied for the lead. She should apply the same principles throughout, i.e. Protect the field.
The whole 'well she wasn't aiming for it' argument is irrelevant.
Dave1980
Assistant Pro
Would Louis Oosthuizen hole in one on the 16th at the 2016 Masters, not count as backstopping?
At what distance should you walk ahead and mark a ball that is close to the hole?
At what distance should you walk ahead and mark a ball that is close to the hole?
larmen
Head Pro
Anything you don’t need a driver for seems realistic, doesn’t it? 250 yards maybe, just to have a round number. ;-)
pendodave
Tour Rookie
This isn't a normal round with your mates. It's a professional golf tournament. They have a duty to protect the field. To be honest, I suspect that they don't even know what the rules of golf have to say on the matter.
If you're playing with your mates in a medal, what else wouldn't you do to protect the field??
If she'd said "leave it there just in case I hit it past/wide" she'd be cheating. No mention was made about leaving it there to aid the shot. No foul. The reason, I guess, that a discussion would be needed on "please it there because..." is where do you draw the line. If a ball, especially at our level, is missing by 10ft but another stops it running further away does that constitute a backstop? No of course it doesn't. And that's why it has to be definitive and not subjective.
Did the player want the ball left as a backstop just in case? We'll never know.
Did the player want the ball left as a backstop just in case? We'll never know.
Wolf
Well-known member
No its not a normal round with their mates and as for protecting the field can you 100% say she left in there on purpose, can you 100% day she knew she would and was aiming to hit the ball. You can't categorically call them out on it, it's all about the intent and that cannot be proven so Where's the issue 🤔
As for the double question mark asking what else I wouldn't do to protect the field bit of a strange question or potential accusation of me cheating seeing as you don't know me. If you'd like to know what would I do in that situation, if someone had asked me if I'd like it marked my response would be if they want to mark it go ahead as its not distracting me. I wouldn't say no I'd leave that up to them, because not in my wildest dreams would I be hoping to use it as a back stop or gain advantage from hitting their ball. I can't abide cheating at all and have seen first hand the implications of cheating through something someone close to me did in a comp and would never think to do anything myself that jeopardise my reputation or causes issues to others.
However in this instance I'm not seeing it as cheating because the chances of her hitting that ball were slim to none from where she was. If she was on the green putting and said no to marking it then we could perhaps have a different conversation.
If I have misunderstood the intentions of your reply I apologise for the way my reply may seem, but I can only go on what I read.
Last edited:
D
Deleted member 15344
Guest
This happened in a Pro Am a while back to a group behind us - the amateur asked to the pro shall I mark it the pro said No - he hit the shot and it hit the person’s ball and then went in , our pro thought that was a rule break , asked the PGA Refs and they said yes - shot penalty , I came on here and asked the question from the rules guys - same answer it’s a penalty.
Now for me It was the same situation as this - she left the ball there as an aid for her shot , if that other ball wasn’t there Olsen’s ball would have gone on a lot further maybe costing her a shot - forget pace of play because it would have took her 10 seconds to mark it
So for me it’s a shot penalty and I think it’s for both - an East Region PGA rules guy also thinks it should have been a penalty
It seems to be creeping in the relaxation of rules and allowing people to get away with stuff
Now for me It was the same situation as this - she left the ball there as an aid for her shot , if that other ball wasn’t there Olsen’s ball would have gone on a lot further maybe costing her a shot - forget pace of play because it would have took her 10 seconds to mark it
So for me it’s a shot penalty and I think it’s for both - an East Region PGA rules guy also thinks it should have been a penalty
It seems to be creeping in the relaxation of rules and allowing people to get away with stuff
Its the subjectivity of the interpretation though. For all we know all she might have thought it wasn't on her line. But, equally, to take the doubt out of it, once her competitor said shall I mark it she should have said yes.
D
Deleted member 18588
Guest
If it was a pro-am surely the players involved were playing as a team so the circumstances aren't comparable.
As far as I can remember, the same rule applies whether its a team or not.
For me the rule should be changed so that if you're chipping from around the green. A set range can be defined then balls should be marked after hitting.
I don't for a second a player will aim for their opponents ball. As has been said, they're aiming for the hole. That said if gives an extra chance of a miss hit stopping closer than it would.
As things stand the rule is too unclear and to penalise a player is almost like trying to retro ban a player for diving in footy. Proof of intent is subjective.
Change the rule and its then clear.
I don't for a second a player will aim for their opponents ball. As has been said, they're aiming for the hole. That said if gives an extra chance of a miss hit stopping closer than it would.
As things stand the rule is too unclear and to penalise a player is almost like trying to retro ban a player for diving in footy. Proof of intent is subjective.
Change the rule and its then clear.
duncan mackie
Money List Winner
They (tour pros in general) know the rule very very well.
If a player believes a ball is in a position to assist the playing of a stroke they should mark it, or have marked.
Amateurs do it instinctively....can be almost funny to see a senior run up to mark his ball before his mate gets to play in a 10p/10p/10p game!
In the pro game it's become a common courtesy for everyone to leave theirs which paradoxically means that any individual benefit gets negated over time - but that's not the point.
So, in this case, if the first player believed there was an advantage to the other player she should mark, not ask.
Having asked she is basically saying that she doesn't see an advantage, and does see a possible disadvantage (or why ask someone who is only going to say it's fine).
Then (obviously surpringly) there was an advantage, and it was celebrated....🤔
Sweep
Journeyman Pro
According to Golf.com
"I had never even heard of the back-stopping issue as I don’t really watch PGA golf that much and it hasn’t been an issue on the LPGA."
Amy Olson explained her side of yesterday's backstopping-esque incident.
"I had never even heard of the back-stopping issue as I don’t really watch PGA golf that much and it hasn’t been an issue on the LPGA."
Amy Olson explained her side of yesterday's backstopping-esque incident.
rulefan
Tour Winner
She should know the rules anyway.
pendodave
Tour Rookie
No slight intended. It was a rhetorical device chosen to highlight that, as club golfers, we don't choose which rules to follow, while the pros seen to ignore the ones that don't like.
HomerJSimpson
Hall of Famer
Can't see the issue. In my opinion she was ready to play and did so. Seems to be too much focus on looking for rules infringements and intent these days
Similar threads
