Low handicaps vs Tour Pro's

[Siolag]

Inspired by the "cliche golf club characters" thread, I was wondering what the difference is between people off of low single figures or even plus handicaps at 15-16 and a tour pro? What factors would prevent someone getting to the professional level from being an elite junior? I assume practice and lifestyle would come into it at but are some of these people just not good enough? If Rory, for example, was to get and keep a handicap for a year in the same way as some of these juniors do, what would be be off? Is plus double figures unrealistic?

 

[Karl102]

Some good info here. I wouldn't fancy my chances in the monthly medal at Whisper Rock!

https://www.golfshake.com/news/view/12603/Lowest_Golf_Handicaps_in_the_World.html

 

[Foxholer]

I knew an ex-Tour Pro who played in a 'clique' of top Tour players at Camberley Heath years ago.

Consensus was that they should be shooting about -8 to win their 'swindle'!

Likewise, several Pros play at Queenwood and are off around +5 or +6

 

[Lord Tyrion]

I suspect psychology has a lot to do with it. The ability to handle pressure, the grind of a tour. The fact you are no longer a top amateur but one of many exceptional players walking a fine line between making a cut, and money, or not. Between the ears, mental toughness, has to be massive.

 

[Imurg]

Whisper Rock - home of Tom Malinowski or TK as he is known (Kim Braly's main shaft tester).
I believe he plays off about +7, still amateur and none of the Pros will play him for money...

 

[jim8flog]

I once saw a comment that to turn pro and be successful you should be shooting to about a +6 handicap virtually every time you go out on your home course.

Bearing in mind that the tour players will be playing a totally different course each week.

We have an elite just past junior amateur where I play, Tom Plumb (+4.9) , he gets to play all over the world but has yet to make a decision about turning pro. He could have gone after the Walker cup but he has decided to give it a little longer at amateur level I think it is to become a touch more consistent when playing in major competitions.

 

[Blue in Munich]

For anyone that knows my place, a European Tour Pro playing a side match over the last 3 holes finished 4 under par for those 3 holes. I watched the birdie up 18. Different class.

 

[bladeplayer]

Think it was Gmac i asked what was diff between elite am and a guy on tour

Consistency was the answer

 

[MendieGK]

I once saw a comment that to turn pro and be successful you should be shooting to about a +6 handicap virtually every time you go out on your home course.

Bearing in mind that the tour players will be playing a totally different course each week.

We have an elite just past junior amateur where I play, Tom Plumb (+4.9) , he gets to play all over the world but has yet to make a decision about turning pro. He could have gone after the Walker cup but he has decided to give it a little longer at amateur level I think it is to become a touch more consistent when playing in major competitions.

Hes has a great amateur career.

Personally the different between +2 upwards is really just CSS on the events you play well on.

After that I think success as a pro is pot luck and mentality

 

[Deleted member 1147]

We host the first round of Open qualifying at Kedleston. The winning score is about 3 under par, on a 7,000 yard par 70 course.

No amateur has yet broken par on the day. Those going through to the next round tend to be minor tour players.

Those who do best normally appear to hit it long, but more importantly, don’t make such big errors.

3 or 4 shots doesn’t seem a lot but it’s a big difference over the course of a tournament

 

[richbeech]

I remember watching the best player in our club (at the time a +1 player) playing in a EuroPro event at our club as his prize for winning our club champs. He’s a very very good player and does things sometimes that just leaves you baffled at how he’s pulled it off. Now obviously he must have been nervous and he didn’t play as well as he could on the two days but the difference between him and those EuroPro lads was pretty much like the difference between me and him. I play off 10. And that’s only EuroPro level. It’s Frightening how good you must have to be to properly make it.

Another comparison I can draw on is a young actual pro I was fortunate enough to play with last year (through a mutual friend) Turned pro off +6. Shot 5 or 6 under the day I played with him and it didn’t look like he got out of 2nd gear. He was just different gravy. He’s now playing Challenge Tour and the odd invite to European Tour and is just average amongst those lads really. Like I said, frightening.

 

[srixon 1]

I once saw a comment that to turn pro and be successful you should be shooting to about a +6 handicap virtually every time you go out on your home course.

Bearing in mind that the tour players will be playing a totally different course each week.

We have an elite just past junior amateur where I play, Tom Plumb (+4.9) , he gets to play all over the world but has yet to make a decision about turning pro. He could have gone after the Walker cup but he has decided to give it a little longer at amateur level I think it is to become a touch more consistent when playing in major competitions.

Nice guy too.

 

[patricks148]

A very good question, i expect if you knew the answer you could make a fortune

We have 3 guys at my club who all had a go at being pro and didn't really get anywhere, one's family are very wealthy and he wanted for nothing so i;m told, still and awesome player and is still off +3 and won the Club champs a fair few times.

Theres also a lad who is or was the lowest rankend Am in the UK, off +6 or he was last time i saw him on one of the club results sheets. Just about to finish College in the US, i suspect he will turn Pro. A very clever lad and hard worker and humble, liked by evryone, i hope he has what it takes, but i think he will be a success nn matter what he does.

 

[Grizzly]

Mentality is a big part of it - you go from winning everything in the amateur game to being quite chuffed to make the cut and take home a cheque at the weekend, and it must be very difficult to amend your expectations in that way - it must also be difficult to keep plugging away in the fallow periods when you are haemorrhaging cash.

But there is also a physical thing - I was lucky enough to go to a day of the Ryder Cup and it amazed me the difference in how the top players strike the ball - not so much the distance as the trajectory of their shots, which seemed more akin to tracer bullets with very low launch.

 

[Macster]

I used to play often with a lad at our Club, who was off +3, and was incredible to watch, although a tad too 'intense' for his own good.

He finally turned Pro, and went off to play the EuroPro tour, and quite simply, was so far off 'making it' it was untrue. Most of the issues between his ears I understand, the pressure/expectations to earn a crust, and he just didnt make it, and totally depsondent with the game,
quit altogether I understand. Big shame for such a wonderful golfer.

So may classy players havent made it as Pro's, Ian Pyman, Gordon Sherry, and so many more we've all fogetten by now. The step up to European Tour is beyond imagination.
I was fortunate to play a round with Renato Paratore 2/3 years ago - currently on the European Tour and doing well, it was the Pro-Am for the Madeiran Open, and he ambled round with his Caddy and Coach, in a howling gale, and it was spectacular to watch.
The ability to control the Ball in conditions like that, on the side of a Mountain, had to be seen to be believed. Staggering.

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

We have a +4 at ours who is ex British Amateur champion. Turned pro, couple of seasons on the European tour then worked his way down through Challenge, Europro, Jamega etc. He is a country mile ahead of any other player in our club but nowhere near good enough for top level. Couple of years ago after he got his amateur status back he shot 63 then 62 (both course records) in back to back competitions and he got cut to +5.4 so only 0.1 away from +6, apparently he was the lowest in the country at the time.

 

[Grizzly]

Its numbers like that that put in context how little a scratch golfer has in common with a tour Pro. 24 shots over the course of a tournament!

 

[Grant85]

Inspired by the "cliche golf club characters" thread, I was wondering what the difference is between people off of low single figures or even plus handicaps at 15-16 and a tour pro? What factors would prevent someone getting to the professional level from being an elite junior? I assume practice and lifestyle would come into it at but are some of these people just not good enough? If Rory, for example, was to get and keep a handicap for a year in the same way as some of these juniors do, what would be be off? Is plus double figures unrealistic?

Tour pros will have a scoring average of 69 to 71 on tough, long set ups, with tucked pins and marbles on the line every day, in all conditions and playing different courses every week.

Scratch amateurs are playing a lot of golf on members courses that might be on average 1000 yards shorter.

It's also possible to be a scratch amateur with a scoring average quite a bit over par, given that you go up 0.1 whether you shoot 74 or 84.

Probably a 15 handicapper is actually closer to a scratch am... compared with the difference between a scratch am and a tour pro.

 

[Wolf]

Been lucky to have played with some brilliant amateur players as a junior growing up I was lucky enough to get to low cat 1. One lad I used to partner in our club junior and men's A team was 3 years younger than me he was off scratch by time he was 12 (only started playing when he was 11) was +4 at 16 and went to Tennessee on a golf scholarship and qualified for 2004 Open doesn't even play golf now as he wasn't good enough to make tour and doesn't see point playing club or county golf.

Another lad did make tour he came runner up challenge tour order of merit, but failed to maintain his full playing rights now knocks about lower tours as and when with no real desire.

What I think I'm getting at is there are 2 key components the first is undoubtedly talent to get there but the second more important is the mindset to have the desire and drive to stay there and keep improving. Neither of which the exceptionally talent guys I know have.

 

[Deleted member 3432]

Been lucky to have played with some brilliant amateur players as a junior growing up I was lucky enough to get to low cat 1. One lad I used to partner in our club junior and men's A team was 3 years younger than me he was off scratch by time he was 12 (only started playing when he was 11) was +4 at 16 and went to Tennessee on a golf scholarship and qualified for 2004 Open doesn't even play golf now as he wasn't good enough to make tour and doesn't see point playing club or county golf.

Another lad did make tour he came runner up challenge tour order of merit, but failed to maintain his full playing rights now knocks about lower tours as and when with no real desire.

What I think I'm getting at is there are 2 key components the first is undoubtedly talent to get there but the second more important is the mindset to have the desire and drive to stay there and keep improving. Neither of which the exceptionally talent guys I know have.

Just shows how deep the talent pool is at golf.

Players have to improve continously just to stand still let alone the extremely talented few who get to the very top of the game.

Performance related pay scheme means its a tough way to make a living. Poor play equals no pay.