Lost!

[Robster59]

I started playing this game about 1970. So I've spent nearly fiftyyears of my golfing life (God! That makes me feel old) just relying on yardage markers and judgement. Now I have a GPS watch and I think it's something that I find beneficial. It isn't the cure all because every day is different with wind, humidity, course condition and other factors to take into account. But it does help me and, I believe, is faster than using the eye as I can lok at my watch and know what the yardage is immediately. I then take into account the other factors, select my club and duff it. if I don't have my GPS watch it feels odd but I rely on my eyesight and experience BUT, there are times when I find my personal judgement is incorrect when I consult my GPS.
The Pro's have known their yardages for decades, why shouldn't we?

 

[Rlburnside]

What’s the lowest you have got down to using the judging method ?

So I think your implying that he could get his h/c down if he used a dmd, most say they use a dmd but what I wonder has it helped many to actually reduce their h/cs, my h/c has gone up since using one , not saying that's the only factor of course.

At the moment I'm not using one and I'm leading our winter comp. with scores of 39,37,36 and 36. so I'm not missing my gps watch and generally club down if I'm in doubt.


Using any dmd doesn't slow play down imo, quite the opposite in fact.

 

[Slab]

Didn’t say you did, just said don’t .

Disagree about speed, I have my gps out as I’m walking to my ball, so when I get there, I have a very good idea . Sometimes I’ll use the laser, sometimes not,
But we are talking seconds, far quicker than walking forward 39 yards to the 150 marker and pacing back 👍

That’s poor to be honest, you called him out for something he didn’t say (but you inferred anyway) and when picked up for it you twisted your reply to be a ‘warning’ to him instead of just retracting your comment



From the moment Norrin voiced his opinion that he’d ban if he could he’s been (unfairly) pounced on several times in this thread. You all know there’s no way he can have them banned yet some are acting like they must safeguard the notion from gathering any traction or they’ll be banned next week! So what if he’s ok with some tech in golf and not others, what hurt is it doing you, why the need to rid him of his belief/opinion

Sure debate the merits of them all day but that’s not what some are doing here

 

[Slab]

For my part I wear a GPS watch and find it pretty useful, but am pleased that I can gauge distances pretty well without it & can often call a distance from ball to green within a few yards when I’m still some way from my ball, and I hope I never lose that skill. If I thought GPS would take that skill away or reduce it then yes I would consider not using mine

Thinking on the topic I can remember playing with people who appear to give a GPS distance a disproportionate relevance when selecting a club (it’s like they’ve reduced the thought given to elevation, wind, ground conditions, weather etc and are over-focusing on distance, maybe because its factual & instantly on the screen so this known, defined number is driving 80% of the decision on club choice)

And however much this doesn’t apply to you it can’t be denied that through using GPS/rangefinders some players could be at risk of lessening (or not learning) the skills needed to work out a ‘shot distance’ as opposed to a physical distance
(examples have cropped up on this forum before)

I’m happy to embrace the tech but that doesn’t mean there’s no risks or downside to it that would mean I could so easily dismiss another opinion



I've never played with someone who would pace out a 60/70 yard shot, I think I'd find that quite surreal, I'd also find it a bit unusual if they had to laser it because not being able to judge that distance pretty closely is for me a basic skill
(but I acknowledge there are plenty short game wizards out there who know that x club is 6yrds longer than y club on a 1/3rd swing, so the exact distance will naturally matter more to them than it does to me)

 

[Blue in Munich]

That’s poor to be honest, you called him out for something he didn’t say (but you inferred anyway) and when picked up for it you twisted your reply to be a ‘warning’ to him instead of just retracting your comment



From the moment Norrin voiced his opinion that he’d ban if he could he’s been (unfairly) pounced on several times in this thread. You all know there’s no way he can have them banned yet some are acting like they must safeguard the notion from gathering any traction or they’ll be banned next week! So what if he’s ok with some tech in golf and not others, what hurt is it doing you, why the need to rid him of his belief/opinion

Sure debate the merits of them all day but that’s not what some are doing here

He's not been pounced upon, he's being asked to explain why he considers it reasonable to ban one piece of technology but not another.

I'd consider it a far greater talent to hit the middle of the club face every time than to be able to judge distance. He seems to want to keep all the other technological advancements that help him, like cavity back clubs and perimeter weighted "woods", but outlaw the one where he considers himself extremely good. I, and others would not unreasonably like to know the reasons why.

I'd also be interested to know why, as a player who doesn't deal in yardages, he's not averse to asking a fellow player for a yardage (post 10), which I'd presume the fellow player has got from a GPS device?

If it seems like he's being pounced on it's probably because the posts come over as an ill-considered and possibly hypocritical rant; I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for the logic behind it.

 

[Slab]

He's not been pounced upon, he's being asked to explain why he considers it reasonable to ban one piece of technology but not another.

I'd consider it a far greater talent to hit the middle of the club face every time than to be able to judge distance. He seems to want to keep all the other technological advancements that help him, like cavity back clubs and perimeter weighted "woods", but outlaw the one where he considers himself extremely good. I, and others would not unreasonably like to know the reasons why.

I'd also be interested to know why, as a player who doesn't deal in yardages, he's not averse to asking a fellow player for a yardage (post 10), which I'd presume the fellow player has got from a GPS device?

If it seems like he's being pounced on it's probably because the posts come over as an ill-considered and possibly hypocritical rant; I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for the logic behind it.

But he answered this as early as post 15

I'm sure he doesn't need me to speak for him but he clearly said, for him it makes for a better game (which I took to mean more enjoyable) What more information does anyone need, how can anyone argue against that?

I also think the hypocrisy in posts replying lets just use feather balls/hickory shafts etc is stronger than anything he said (its hardly a reasoned counter-point)


As for why he'd outlaw a device that he's skilled at without using it and leaving other helpful technology alone?
I cant speak for him but if I knew I had a skill that was above average and a piece of tech took that advantage away I might feel its just like filling in the bunker at the front of the green that seems to catch everyone out but I never go in it, or moving the tee box forward so that carry isn't a problem for the short hitters anymore but was never an issue for me.... In short I'd probably just be a tiny bit miffed to be honest, would anyone blame me?
(although he also said he didn't have an issue with others using it so we know he knows he cant really ban them and it was just a measure of his dislike of them)

Or maybe he just sees it as another little bit of erosion to what the game used to be and this bit just happened to be the bit too far
(I'm seriously thinking my next car will be a 20+ year old car. Not because the current tech doesn't help but I enjoyed driving more back then, I enjoyed maintaining my own car, I don't really like some of the tech that's in a modern machine or the replacement costs, I quite liked wind up windows & being able to do the odd upgrade. It doesn't mean I want a model T though, it just means when they started hooking laptops up then that for me was the 'bit too far')

 

[Deleted member 16999]

That’s poor to be honest, you called him out for something he didn’t say (but you inferred anyway) and when picked up for it you twisted your reply to be a ‘warning’ to him instead of just retracting your comment



From the moment Norrin voiced his opinion that he’d ban if he could he’s been (unfairly) pounced on several times in this thread. You all know there’s no way he can have them banned yet some are acting like they must safeguard the notion from gathering any traction or they’ll be banned next week! So what if he’s ok with some tech in golf and not others, what hurt is it doing you, why the need to rid him of his belief/opinion

Sure debate the merits of them all day but that’s not what some are doing here

I think you’re wrong, nobody has “pounced” on anybody, Norrin doesn’t agree with dmd’s and his reasoning has been questioned, nobody has insulted anybody or name called etc.
Let’s remember it is him who wants to take a draconian measure, he’s not suggested banning them for qualifying comps only or any half way measure he’s gone for the complete ban and his reasoning is that it takes the skill of judgeing distance out the game.
Me and others have then asked why that skill alone as we believe there have been other technological advances that have had a bigger impact on the skill of the game.
If people are simply going to make statements and nobody question’s them, the forum would be nothing but a string of one line quotes.
Your 2nd post and saying we were being hypocritical, how? The questions were based on his statement that he learnt the game before dmd’s, he was then asked were do you draw the line in time as to when the game evolves.
Your car analogy is no different to what others were saying, ie, he can go without dmd’s and play the game he likes with no issues, just like you can drive your old car on the road without impacting others. You’re not asking for all cars under 20yrs to be banned are you? He would be!

 

[patricks148]

fist few times i played hickory i did feel lost not knowing the distance of the next shot, but soon realized it is usually everything you have quite refreshing at times just to have a half dozen clubs and nothing else.

mind you playing modern clubs i like knowing the distance and having that has certainly helped my game and has helped get me down to the handicap i have now. saying that having the info is not much use if you cant make the most of it

 

[shortgame]

I use a GPS but I still occasionally (kind of) pace out the odd yardage when I don't believe the numbers shown. 9 times out of 10 the GPS is correct and my eye are deceived by architectural tricks like false fronts or bunkers foreshortening the holes.

However I've also been guilty of using wrong numbers in the past when my watch hadn't automatically updated (i.e used yardages to the wrong green ).

I also once played most of a round when my numbers seemed out and couldn't figure out why... until I realised that somehow (still no idea how) my Garmin had switched to metres! )

Given the above I'd say that, yes, I'm guilty of over reliance on DMDs!

IMO they (can) speed up play, marginally.
However those that faff and are slow any way still continue to faff and be slow!

 

[Slab]

I think you’re wrong, nobody has “pounced” on anybody, Norrin doesn’t agree with dmd’s and his reasoning has been questioned, nobody has insulted anybody or name called etc.
Let’s remember it is him who wants to take a draconian measure, he’s not suggested banning them for qualifying comps only or any half way measure he’s gone for the complete ban and his reasoning is that it takes the skill of judgeing distance out the game.
Me and others have then asked why that skill alone as we believe there have been other technological advances that have had a bigger impact on the skill of the game.
If people are simply going to make statements and nobody question’s them, the forum would be nothing but a string of one line quotes.
Your 2nd post and saying we were being hypocritical, how? The questions were based on his statement that he learnt the game before dmd’s, he was then asked were do you draw the line in time as to when the game evolves.
Your car analogy is no different to what others were saying, ie, he can go without dmd’s and play the game he likes with no issues, just like you can drive your old car on the road without impacting others. You’re not asking for all cars under 20yrs to be banned are you? He would be!

I think you might be reading too much into it but maybe it is that important to some, the way I read it it’s far from draconian but you could be right and I’m the one that’s totally misread him (and if he confirms it I will owe several of you an apology)

I know you know it doesn't matter a jot what he wants banned, its just not going to happen. I'm only trying to illustrate that you cannot counter an argument against a call for a ban on DMD's with 'we're not going to entertain your suggestion while you continue to use yardage books/graphite shafts'

Maybe Norrin is a bit self-centered or thoughtless of others in calling for a ban but some of the replies are no more considered and it just makes both wrong


My reference to hypocritical was only in reply to BiM's mention of it

 

[Orikoru]

I was always crap at judging distance before I started using GPS anyway. Around 150 yard is alright as there's usually a marker, but from over 165 or under 135 I was basically just guessing. I use a phone app for GPS so it's highly unlikely I'll ever be without it for a round now. The only time I don't use it now is when it's raining.

 

[robinthehood]

I like my laser and it only takes a few seconds to get a reading. Usually done while I am waiting for others to play first. If for some reason I don't have it then most places have markers at key distances which are are ok and probably accurate enough if truth be told.

 

[richart]

You are 100 yards from the pin, no wind,
You take your PW ( your nailed in 100 yard club)

Game on . This is going in .......

And proceed to thin the backside out of it resulting in a 17 yard pitch out of the heavy rough.

Sounds like one of your better shots.

 

[Hobbit]

Sounds like one of your better shots.

At least he's making contact for a change.

 

[jim8flog]

Having a GPS unit made realise I could throw away all my own hand drawn yardage books based upon walking the course (done in the days when yardage books did not exist).

It made me realise my pace/step is less than a yard.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I have both a GPS and laser simply get my yardages when others are getting ready to play. It's definitely not causing a delay in pace of play. I can get a laser read in 5-10 seconds and even if I use the functionality of the GPS have a decent reading in 15-20 seconds. It takes longer to pace to and from yardage markers on a fairway or a sprinkler head

 

[Blue in Munich]

But he answered this as early as post 15

I'm sure he doesn't need me to speak for him but he clearly said, for him it makes for a better game (which I took to mean more enjoyable) What more information does anyone need, how can anyone argue against that?

I also think the hypocrisy in posts replying lets just use feather balls/hickory shafts etc is stronger than anything he said (its hardly a reasoned counter-point)


As for why he'd outlaw a device that he's skilled at without using it and leaving other helpful technology alone?
I cant speak for him but if I knew I had a skill that was above average and a piece of tech took that advantage away I might feel its just like filling in the bunker at the front of the green that seems to catch everyone out but I never go in it, or moving the tee box forward so that carry isn't a problem for the short hitters anymore but was never an issue for me.... In short I'd probably just be a tiny bit miffed to be honest, would anyone blame me?
(although he also said he didn't have an issue with others using it so we know he knows he cant really ban them and it was just a measure of his dislike of them)

Or maybe he just sees it as another little bit of erosion to what the game used to be and this bit just happened to be the bit too far
(I'm seriously thinking my next car will be a 20+ year old car. Not because the current tech doesn't help but I enjoyed driving more back then, I enjoyed maintaining my own car, I don't really like some of the tech that's in a modern machine or the replacement costs, I quite liked wind up windows & being able to do the odd upgrade. It doesn't mean I want a model T though, it just means when they started hooking laptops up then that for me was the 'bit too far')

Sorry, you've lost me; what exactly is the hypocrisy in suggesting we wind all the technology back, rather than just GPS or DMD's? It may have been a tad sarcastic, but was also addressed to another poster who is well used to my sense of humour.

I feel there's a hypocrisy in taking away the distance measurement, which in my opinion is a much lesser part of the game, yet hanging onto the advantages that cavity back clubs and metal headed woods give lesser strikers of the ball. There was further hypocrisy, in my opinion, in saying he would ban DMD's yet wouldn't be averse to asking a fellow player for a yardage. I don't see how you can hold back part of the technology because it suits you, yet retain the bits that benefit you, hence I asked what logic reason there was behind it.

Now if you said you wanted to rein the ball back in before we make all the old classic courses redundant you wouldn't have an argument from me.

 

[HankMarvin]

Always good to go back to basics every now an them and rely on your touch/feel and work the club's to play the shot.

 

[Robster59]

I was always crap at judging distance before I started using GPS anyway. Around 150 yard is alright as there's usually a marker, but from over 165 or under 135 I was basically just guessing. I use a phone app for GPS so it's highly unlikely I'll ever be without it for a round now. The only time I don't use it now is when it's raining.

Get yourself a waterproof GPS watch? Mines survived at least 5 Scottish winters (and wet summers).

 

[Slab]

Sorry, you've lost me; what exactly is the hypocrisy in suggesting we wind all the technology back, rather than just GPS or DMD's? It may have been a tad sarcastic, but was also addressed to another poster who is well used to my sense of humour.

I feel there's a hypocrisy in taking away the distance measurement, which in my opinion is a much lesser part of the game, yet hanging onto the advantages that cavity back clubs and metal headed woods give lesser strikers of the ball. There was further hypocrisy, in my opinion, in saying he would ban DMD's yet wouldn't be averse to asking a fellow player for a yardage. I don't see how you can hold back part of the technology because it suits you, yet retain the bits that benefit you, hence I asked what logic reason there was behind it.

Now if you said you wanted to rein the ball back in before we make all the old classic courses redundant you wouldn't have an argument from me.

Ah I see, apologies if i stepped into banter between two members who know each, I didn't get that connection in the posts, sorry

I just thought that since there's such a massive positive argument that could be used for not banning DMD's to counter any suggestion to kick them out, and to go with 'ban everything then' was lazy at best and wouldn't encourage good debate, but I guess with the above it makes more sense