Loft question with driver changing from OTT to swinging up

[G1BB0]

so, as I am sure all are aware I am having a major swing change, 3 lessons and about 1500 balls in we are now onto driver. I had an OTT swing hitting down, causing a power fade, hooks and tops, my distance has always been ok when middled but very inconsistant accuracy.

My new swing is to get me to hit more on the up, yesterday it was going great, I am still working on it but just wondered if the R1 @ 12 degree and 3 degree closed may be wrong? By that I mean it was fitted to suit my OTT swing

Ball flight yesterday was pretty darn good and was carrying the 250 range marker or just short but rolling over the back mound due to the better spin/contact, also slice has pretty much vanished (if anything I hit a very slight fade at worst or straight pushes)

How does higher lofted drivers work with a positive loft AoA?

 

[DCB]

12° loft will be your friend, it may be that the 3° closed may need to be altered in time, but, you seem happy with yesterdays results so why rush into changing

 

[G1BB0]

not rushing David, as said its all in the flight, I dont think the 3 degree is actually a true 3 anyway as it changes with the loft so might be more neutral. Off out to whack some more so will report back later

 

[Foxholer]

I'd suggest 'it depends', but the fact that the R1 is adjustable is a good thing if it turns out to the 'max help' is no longer needed.

And remember that you are now (or will be) satisfied by what is happening with the Driver at its 'max help' settings. Don't consider a change until you are constantly (as opposed to occasional) getting low hooks.

Btw. Can't remember where it was, but i remember reading that 'in order to cure a slice, you first need to learn to hit a hook'!
Oh and loft is still probably your friend. Even at 13* and a couple of degrees of upward AoA, you are still probably not optimum Launch, though that depends on 'Backspin'. 13* will probably increase 'backspin', but that will reduce the effect of 'sidespin'. Actually in this case it's probably better to think in terms of the 'real' stuff - spin axis will be closer to flat (9-3) rather than banking (say 10-4) and the effect is like a plane banking too - the greater the lean, the more it turns/moves.

 

[G1BB0]

just back from the range and what a difference. Much straighter and also loads of rollout, a happy bunny. I think the settings are spot on so unless ball flight drastically changes its all good. I also found the transition from a drive to an iron or hybrid much easier now. I guess I was basically hitting driver like a long shafter iron before. I had the odd low one but nothing ballooning miles high and only 1 push slice.

I might have to try a mates 9.5 degree just to see the difference.

 

[apj0524]

Sorry to jump in but some advise please, Also have an R1 set to 12* Loft but I thought that the Closed/Open setting would only change how the club head would set at address if on the floor. I use a stronger grip with my driver, as this helps my tendency to slice, and as I don't tend to sit the club head on the deck, I was thinking that the Open / Closed setting is immaterial, so I have set it to neutral, have I miss under stood?

My honest carry at the range is about 200, which being 56 just stated playing 6 months ago I have been happy to build on this

Thanks for your advise

AJ

 

[G1BB0]

I think the open/closed setting is to do with the soleplate so how the clubs sits when on the deck. I think changing the loft affects the open/closed settings but again this is when at address with the club on the deck.

 

[the_coach]

so, as I am sure all are aware I am having a major swing change, 3 lessons and about 1500 balls in we are now onto driver. I had an OTT swing hitting down, causing a power fade, hooks and tops, my distance has always been ok when middled but very inconsistant accuracy.

My new swing is to get me to hit more on the up, yesterday it was going great, I am still working on it but just wondered if the R1 @ 12 degree and 3 degree closed may be wrong? By that I mean it was fitted to suit my OTT swing

Ball flight yesterday was pretty darn good and was carrying the 250 range marker or just short but rolling over the back mound due to the better spin/contact, also slice has pretty much vanished (if anything I hit a very slight fade at worst or straight pushes)

How does higher lofted drivers work with a positive loft AoA?

"How does higher lofted drivers work with a positive loft AoA?"


General answer would be, it would work well & it's a good thing to be working towards (if working the right way to achieve it) It's a good deal better than a -AoA with a driver.


That said though there are other conditions that also have to go with that +AoA to have better, & best results.


An absolute truth is, it's impossible to work towards a +AoA if the path of the swing is quite a ways Out to In (and then also likely too, to be OTT and far too steep)


So you have also to be working to the 'right' swing path to be able to achieve a +AoA.


What you need to know exactly with this is what your swing path, LA & SR numbers are, that's going with your AoA.


The only real way to do this (which is also the way to quickest results) is to work with a Pro that uses Trackman, FlightScope or GC2, as it's only through all the actual 'numbers' that you can see the cold hard 'proof' of what is actually happening with your swing.


Working alone feel to real, even with video doesn't give you the true feedback you need to be having, difficult thing to see even on slow-mo vid.
Truthfully most handicap golfers 'feel to real' practice is usually not at all in line with what they are really doing.


To work towards a good +AoA, the swing path, has to be, from first off, to get it working from In to Out (Ideally eventually In to square to In or only marginally In to Out). But first off the In to Out path will need to be exaggerated in order to change from what is currently now comfortable but maybe not quite right.


In to Out path (which also because of the that path's direction of travel, is a shallower swing path, so enabling an upwards attack through the ball with the arc's lowest point some 2" to 3" before the club head arrives at impact) This is pretty impossible to achieve with a steep Out to In path for sure.


The thing that affects strike the most is getting a centered contact at sweet spot through impact.


If you miss this 'true' contact, the 'D plane', 'gear effect' comes more & more in to play the further contact is away from 'ideal' and then that will increase the spin rate further away from it's own 'ideal window'.


So it's all about first getting reliable sweet spot contact plus having the right swing path, then getting the swings low point a ways before the club head reaches the ball, to give you optimum LA & club head speed to transfer into optimum BS.
(thing that throws true contact off a ways mostly is not retaining proper posture, the 2 spine angles & vertical head height both in the backswing & down through impact)


With you're current driver set up, if you are getting towards the right swing path, +AoA, LA etc. you will start to consistently 'over draw' or hook your tee shots, until that starts to happen with every driver shot you will still be a ways off where you need to be.


You can still play with 'over draw/hook' but you'd have to start to aim T shots a good deal right of the fairways edge, but then when you do occasionally block the shots right because of a slight mistime of hips to rest of the swing movements you going to be a bit further in trouble right.


If all this 'over draw' + 'hooks' start some consistently, you'll then need to do two things, set the face back to square and then hopefully you'll consistently get a slight draw.


If when face is set back to square you are still producing 'over draw' + 'hooks' you'll then need to start neutralizing the In to Out swing path so it's not so pronounced that ways & bring it back nearer to an In to In path, so it's not severely a ways from 0, the ball/target line.


Here's a link to a US PGA Pro working to marginally change his slight -AoA to start to get to level & then +AoA, you'll hear them talk a bit about what I've been saying here except he doesn't have to move his by much.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ac8X3cijwAU


But that still means him 'feeling' quite a degree of change to what he normally was swinging like with his slight -AoA.
He's changed quite a bit already as at one point he had the second most negative -AoA of the USPGA tour, second only to Charles Howell 111 (Chucky 3 sticks) who few seasons ago had the most - driver AoA of them all.

 

[G1BB0]

wow!

for once I actually understood pretty much all of that. I am not on trackman but am using a pro. We only did a small drill the other day working on hitting up which basically involved a short backswing and follow though hitting no more than 100 yds, to feel the body coming through but still behind (if that makes sense).

I am not really supposed to hit full shots but after a few swings using the drill I tried to ramp it up and omg, what a difference. I definitely feel the difference from the normal swing. Its far from grooved or controllable and yes I did hit a few low hooks, I think the rubber range tee's are actually a bit low so caused me to catch it low on the face.

Anyway, work in progress (as is all the new swing changes)and I will be arranging a GC2 session soon. 6 weeks into a 26 week programme and already I am feeling the changes working. Just need to transfer to the course haha