Liverpool - It's not looking too bad in the transfer market

According to that site Arsenal sold Carlos Vela in 12/13 for £4.2M and sold him again in 14/15 for £8.8M.
Now THAT is a good bit of business.
 
Papas1982 said:
How so?

Tell me how many more stars wenger has unearthed? Since the prem began. Net spend UTD have spent approx £10m a year more and their success is how much greater? Wenger has also as I've shown bought and released more unkonwns than his counterparts. Throughout this thread about Liverpool I have acknowledged wenger as a good manager. I just believe there are certain myths about him. I remember arsenal villa last season when more than a minority of arsenal fans turned on him too.
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I'll repeat my original statement for you. In case you missed it, didn't read it, forgot about it or chose to ignore it.

I've just had a look at the transfer records for all prem clubs since 1999. Arsenal have not consistently released more players than other clubs at all. Papas - you can't just make stuff up and claim it as fact. Well you can, but it really affects the legitimacy of any of your arguments.

I used the same website you did to look at the historical transfers out for clubs. Your data set is far too narrow to support your original statement that Arsene 'consistently releases more players each season (sic)', which is why I believe you fabricate facts and your credibility has been diminished.
 
londonlewis said:
I'll repeat my original statement for you. In case you missed it, didn't read it, forgot about it or chose to ignore it.

I've just had a look at the transfer records for all prem clubs since 1999. Arsenal have not consistently released more players than other clubs at all. Papas - you can't just make stuff up and claim it as fact. Well you can, but it really affects the legitimacy of any of your arguments.

I used the same website you did to look at the historical transfers out for clubs. Your data set is far too narrow to support your original statement that Arsene 'consistently releases more players each season (sic)', which is why I believe you fabricate facts and your credibility has been diminished.
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as you say, stats can be use by all to fit their needs. I used the timescale because that was when wenger and arsenal went into financial hardship (relative to their completion) and wenger was suddenly heralded for doing so well with youth. For what it's worth, going through that list til 99 with arsenal and UTD I count arsenal realising 105 players that never made it. 60 for UTD so a substantial difference IMO.

As I've said, i don't think wenger is a bad manager, just believe that more is made for his expertise with youth than it deserves. For every Fabregas there's a Jeffers. Same as for every Ronaldo there's a kleberson for fergie.

My my original point was simply that wenger isn't a magician.
 
Papas1982 said:
as you say, stats can be use by all to fit their needs. I used the timescale because that was when wenger and arsenal went into financial hardship (relative to their completion) and wenger was suddenly heralded for doing so well with youth. For what it's worth, going through that list til 99 with arsenal and UTD I count arsenal realising 105 players that never made it. 60 for UTD so a substantial difference IMO.

As I've said, i don't think wenger is a bad manager, just believe that more is made for his expertise with youth than it deserves. For every Fabregas there's a Jeffers. Same as for every Ronaldo there's a kleberson for fergie.

My my original point was simply that wenger isn't a magician.
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Your original point was the Wenger transfers out more players than any other premier league club consistently.
One year is hardly consistent.
Either you are being misleading with your 'facts' or you don't know the facts.

Your most recent comment is a diversion away from your original statements, which again does not exactly make you look credible.
 
londonlewis said:
In my opinion, to say that Arsene Wenger is not a top class manager is crazy.
His record is excellent and in terms of games won, drawn and lost in the premiership he is on a par with Ferguson. He just hasn't had the trophies to elevate him to legendary status.

He also signed Thierry Henry and turned him into one of the best strikers in the game whereas he was used as a pacey winger with no eye for goal before that.

He has also spotted and developed some of the best young talent in the game and won the premiership without being defeated.

He didn't inherit a good team. In the years before Wenger joined Arsenal finished 12th, 4th, 11th, 4th. Hardly a consistent team that was challenging for the premiership. Since taking them over he has never finished lower than 5th (once in his first season) and has managed to win the premiership 3 times.

On top of 3 premier league titles he has managed to win 9 other trophies (5x FA cup, 4x Charity Shield). Hardly a poor record.

Brendan Rodgers:
Too early to tell - he has only been a manager for 6 years and has only been at the helm of a big club since 2012. Time will tell if he is a good manager or not. And currently you can't say that success at Liverpool is solely down to him as he inherited the club 2 seasons ago so a lot of the infrastructure was already in place.
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First thing I would say is - Charity Shield is a pre season friendly and I would never use it to judge any manager or include it in a list of "honours"

And yes for me Wenger isn't in the Top Class level of managers

Reasons - Europe - all the top managers have also win in Europe not just domestically - forget stats about win ratios etc etc - it's trophies that get put on a CV. So whilst Wenger has done well in England with 3 titles that still puts him behind managers like Kenny

In the last ten years Wenger has won the same amount of trophies as both Bruce and Redknapp and Martinez - top class managers don't go a decade without silverware.

So whilst Wenger is a good manager and at one stage looked like he could achieve greatness he for me falls short of the top class that are around and have been around. When Wengers back four ( that he gained from Graham ) retired he failed to replace them , he also had Bergkamp there at the club - he bought well with Veira but then didn't replace him , Anelka and Pires , Henry had already showed his class in WC98 - Juve played him wrong , Wenger got it right but again he hasn't replaced his power and pace and strength.

As for Rodgers - has started well but still a long way to go to see what he does
 
londonlewis said:
Your original point was the Wenger transfers out more players than any other premier league club consistently.
One year is hardly consistent.
Either you are being misleading with your 'facts' or you don't know the facts.

Your most recent comment is a diversion away from your original statements, which again does not exactly make you look credible.
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Where have I said one year? On that website there is clearly more than one year where arsenal released more.

I have looked myself seen that in the last decade arsenal have released more youngsters than their rivals. I have chosen a timescale Ibelieve relevant. If you don't like that timescale that's your choice. I'm firmly in the camp that arsenals last decade is a failure in comparison to the previous decade.

And nd I firmly believe the myth that wenger nurtures talent better than others a myth too.

We are clearly on opposites np but so far you've not actually presented anything that shows other clubs release as many as arsenal, nor have you listed a substantial amount of players for arsenal to show how he spots more talent than any other.

Your pro wenger, I'm not exactly anti wenger. Just not spellbound.

Anyways. I'm off for the afternoon. I'll happily eat humble pie if there are lists in hearing proving wengers outstanding record in comparison to his peers.
 
Liverpoolphil said:
First thing I would say is - Charity Shield is a pre season friendly and I would never use it to judge any manager or include it in a list of "honours"

And yes for me Wenger isn't in the Top Class level of managers

Reasons - Europe - all the top managers have also win in Europe not just domestically - forget stats about win ratios etc etc - it's trophies that get put on a CV. So whilst Wenger has done well in England with 3 titles that still puts him behind managers like Kenny

In the last ten years Wenger has won the same amount of trophies as both Bruce and Redknapp and Martinez - top class managers don't go a decade without silverware.

So whilst Wenger is a good manager and at one stage looked like he could achieve greatness he for me falls short of the top class that are around and have been around. When Wengers back four ( that he gained from Graham ) retired he failed to replace them , he also had Bergkamp there at the club - he bought well with Veira but then didn't replace him , Anelka and Pires , Henry had already showed his class in WC98 - Juve played him wrong , Wenger got it right but again he hasn't replaced his power and pace and strength.

As for Rodgers - has started well but still a long way to go to see what he does
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Let's wait and see how well Rodgers replaces Suarez.
Suarez is the type of player that effectively helps Liverpool score 50 goals a season (his goals and assists). Let's see how easy that is to replace.
 
Stuey01 said:
According to that site Arsenal sold Carlos Vela in 12/13 for £4.2M and sold him again in 14/15 for £8.8M.
Now THAT is a good bit of business.
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Pretty odd tfr, they sold him initially (after a loan spell) but retained a 50% share of him in future transfer and first refusal on him when that came about i believe
 
londonlewis said:
Let's wait and see how well Rodgers replaces Suarez.
Suarez is the type of player that effectively helps Liverpool score 50 goals a season (his goals and assists). Let's see how easy that is to replace.
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Im waiting to see how he replaces Suarez and to see how we fair this season - but strange reply to most post about Wenger
 
Stuart_C said:
Arsenal's stadium is now paid for, will the fans see a reduction in ticket prices?
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I don't believe that's the case! What makes you think they have?

In fact, I don't believe it will be paid off until around 2030!

Some parts of the £500M cost may have been (like some bonds), but I believe there's a £20-£25M ongoing yearly cost!
 
londonlewis said:
Let's wait and see how well Rodgers replaces Suarez.
Suarez is the type of player that effectively helps Liverpool score 50 goals a season (his goals and assists). Let's see how easy that is to replace.
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Suarez is irreplaceable imo, and I can't think of one player who could replace him like for like.

Messin nor Ronaldo are the same type as Suarez.

What Rodgers will have to do is find another way of winning games.

Didn't Wenger pay £16m for Reyes ??
 
Stuart_C said:
Suarez is irreplaceable imo, and I can't think of one player who could replace him like for like.

Messin nor Ronaldo are the same type as Suarez.

What Rodgers will have to do is find another way of winning games.

Didn't Wenger pay £16m for Reyes ??
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Think was around initial fee of £13mil with other payments to take it up to £18mil ?
 
JCW said:
Liverpool got Rogers , spent as much as they want and win nothink because the manager is rubbish as he showed last year , played all that pretty football and won a big zero , need to spent on a new manager ......................hang on , no more money as they have spent the LS money and there is no LS , so its mid table for them next season ................EYG
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These are childish rantings.

JCW said:
We shook hands , you don`t kow me well enough to make comments , like i say to a lot of people , if its a comment you wont make in person to someone dont post it , I can say comments about your post in a personal way but choose not too ,................. liverpool fans have been 2nd best to the Manchester clubs and london clubs for so long now that it has gone beyond hurt , most of you posting on here remember the great times of Liverpool FC and you need a bigger stadium to increase your spending power to complete with the big boys in transfers , you only spending now because you sold LS and then what .......a rich russian owner needed or an arab , Arsenal did not have to leave Highbury but like every growing Business it needs to expand and has done that and will now push on far ahead of liverpool , do you think a player like Sanchez would have gone to arsenal if the liverpool of today was as strong as the club of the 70`s & 80`s , RM and Barca already have the stadiums as to BM , how many managers could have kept Arsenal at the top table every year under such restraints and he could have left as RM and PSG wanted him , Rogers is the best young manager around that is British and has done well but these days you need money and lots of it , if you have a business and more money to spent you can buy products on a bigger scale then the shop down the road who has not and you get bigger discounts on your products and can can sell them cheaper then down the road so in the end they cant complete with you , that how it is and why Arsenal choose to move and in a recent report the cash reserve at Arsenal is more then ALL the clubs in the PL , that is a fact , the rest are living on credit or rich owner pumping money in for fun , tax reasons , or cleaning dirty money , who knows , most of us live the Arsenal way , that is within our means , off to play golf now in a comp , just leave you with this , If i were a business i rather be Arsenal then any of the other clubs ......................EYG
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This is a reasonably considered post, although don't agree with it all. I didn't need the business lesson, and "economies of scale" would have saved you a few lines.

The bigger stadium is hopefully on its way, and LIKE Arsenal, hopefully we may have success based on self-reliance. Sometimes we may not want to admit it, but some rivals have more in common than what we would like to admit.

I still cant remember you, which course was it at? I also try to operate with the same mantra, to only post what I would be happy to say face to face. Maybe your not as memorable a me - I'm Goooorgeous.
 
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Liverbirdie said:
These are childish rantings.



This is a reasonably considered post, although don't agree with it all. I didn't need the business lesson, and "economies of scale" would have saved you a few lines.

The bigger stadium is hopefully on its way, and LIKE Arsenal, hopefully we may have success based on self-reliance. Sometimes we may not want to admit it, but some rivals have more in common than what we would like to admit.

I still cant remember you, which course was it at? I also try to operate with the same mantra, to only post what I would be happy to say face to face. Maybe your not as memorable a me - I'm Goooorgeous.
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Beau Desert it was.
 
JCW said:
We shook hands , you don`t kow me well enough to make comments , like i say to a lot of people , if its a comment you wont make in person to someone dont post it , I can say comments about your post in a personal way but choose not too ,................. liverpool fans have been 2nd best to the Manchester clubs and london clubs for so long now that it has gone beyond hurt , most of you posting on here remember the great times of Liverpool FC and you need a bigger stadium to increase your spending power to complete with the big boys in transfers , you only spending now because you sold LS and then what .......a rich russian owner needed or an arab , Arsenal did not have to leave Highbury but like every growing Business it needs to expand and has done that and will now push on far ahead of liverpool , do you think a player like Sanchez would have gone to arsenal if the liverpool of today was as strong as the club of the 70`s & 80`s , RM and Barca already have the stadiums as to BM , how many managers could have kept Arsenal at the top table every year under such restraints and he could have left as RM and PSG wanted him , Rogers is the best young manager around that is British and has done well but these days you need money and lots of it , if you have a business and more money to spent you can buy products on a bigger scale then the shop down the road who has not and you get bigger discounts on your products and can can sell them cheaper then down the road so in the end they cant complete with you , that how it is and why Arsenal choose to move and in a recent report the cash reserve at Arsenal is more then ALL the clubs in the PL , that is a fact , the rest are living on credit or rich owner pumping money in for fun , tax reasons , or cleaning dirty money , who knows , most of us live the Arsenal way , that is within our means , off to play golf now in a comp , just leave you with this , If i were a business i rather be Arsenal then any of the other clubs ......................EYG
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Very hard to read that but one thing that does stick out is you going on about businesses hence why I expect you are happy with Wenger - he keeps your business in profit and ticking over - ignoring the fact to keep the business in profit Arsenal fans have to pay more for a season ticket or match ticket than any other club in the country.

The problem is a great number of Arsenal fans don't want to celebrate running the club at a profit - they don't want to pay more than anyone else and get a return of zero success on the pitch.

Arsenal is a football club - it should be about success as a football club in regards trophy success as opposed to just running at a profit. Wenger has prob got himself another season maybe two to actually win the title or the CL or even realistically challenge for it - if not then the amount of people that want him gone will increase greatly.

In fact there is no better way to bring in financial success club than to have a successful team on the pitch.
 
Foxholer said:
I don't believe that's the case! What makes you think they have?

In fact, I don't believe it will be paid off until around 2030!

Some parts of the £500M cost may have been (like some bonds), but I believe there's a £20-£25M ongoing yearly cost!
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Sorry I stand corrected. I was under the impression it was.

That £25m repayment is in theory a manageable mortgage which seeing as they receive £3m per game at home revenue shouldn't be a problem meeting every year.
 
Stuart_C said:
Sorry I stand corrected. I was under the impression it was.

That £25m repayment is in theory a manageable mortgage which seeing as they receive £3m per game at home revenue shouldn't be a problem meeting every year.
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Well, out of that they have to pay some pretty expensive bills! I think the overall profit to May 2013 was £15M. But at least they did make a profit, something some other Clubs (and their fans), Liverpool being one of them, don't appear to be concerned about!

And greater income, therefore ability to compete, was certainly part of the reasoning behind the move/bigger stadium!
 
Foxholer said:
Well, out of that they have to pay some pretty expensive bills! I think the overall profit to May 2013 was £15M. But at least they did make a profit, something some other Clubs (and their fans), Liverpool being one of them, don't appear to be concerned about!

And greater income, therefore ability to compete, was certainly part of the reasoning behind the move/bigger stadium!
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wasnt that 15m profit including paying substantially more towards the stadium than they will be doing this year. Therefor they have more to spend on players. Although been as they're trying to host extra concerts at the emirates, maybe things aren't so rosey?
 
The Arsenal model is the way forward for football clubs , they built a new stadium so they could complete in the future years and that time is now , to say Wenger did not win any trophies for 9 years hence he is an average manager , he had to complete against chelski who was buying every player going and later it was city , not a level playing field as those clubs were using monoply money from owners , to do what he did with what he had from 2007 onwards is notink short of a very good manager , had a chance to win but never got over the line till the FA Cup this year . Take a look at Leeds , Portsmouth and many others who lived on credit , where are they today , he is up there with the best , in a program on sky about managers he was voted no 1 even above Sir Alec , for me he is up there with the best and Arsenal football club are in good shape all round , how many can say that and i dont include the ones where owners are just chucking in money and now with FFP they have got accountants trying to come up with ways of not showing a huge lost .........................other clubs will have to do it to stay on the top table in Europe or get left behind , the Champions league will turn in to a European super league soon and if you dont stand on yer own 2 feet like most of us have to do then you will need a rich owner with very deep pockets ...................EYG
 
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