Lake Balls -you decide

[billyg]

Well after getting little feedback on this one I went ahead and did my own bit of research.

First I went on the web and searched for articles which looked at the issue of what they were and if there were any catches.

The only downside that seemed to crop up regularly was that typically balls submerged for any period of time longer that 3 months tend to loose between 5 and 10% in their distance potential.

Am I bovered?

I then went and bought these:

http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/pa...olf%2Bballs.htm

took them home and the results are:-

Number of balls scratched or split: 0

Number of balls with any identifying marks: 6*

Number of No1's:9

Number of No2's(no laughing at the back smithers): 6

Number of No3's:6

Number of No4's: 3

* four stamped with nice colourful resort logo's (which I will look up)
* one stamped with someones first name(if you guess the name Daryl it's yours....doh)
* one with an extended biro drawn putting line around three quarters of the circumference

9 are marked NXT

15 are marked NXT tour

The eggbox they came in says they are meant be NXT tour balls which the webpage doesn't specify.

24 balls @75 pence a ball bringing them into the price range of many lesser 2 piece new balls.

 

[brendy]

A golf shop local to me here in Bangor sells pro v1 grade A's for 17.99 for a dozen, I have found that they are virtually brand new also, granted you only get half the quantity but I have tried and cannot get used to the harder nx's etc.

24 balls for 18 quid really isnt bad, How long would they last you matey, ie would you tend to lose the odd ball or do you play them to extinction?

 

[billyg]

A golf shop local to me here in Bangor sells pro v1 grade A's for 17.99 for a dozen, I have found that they are virtually brand new also, granted you only get half the quantity but I have tried and cannot get used to the harder nx's etc.

24 balls for 18 quid really isnt bad, How long would they last you matey, ie would you tend to lose the odd ball or do you play them to extinction?

I'm still learning my craft and have been used to playing with anything vaguely spherical so far. I'm intrigued to see if there's anything to this 3 piece lark and for £18 I was prepared to take a punt.

Expect them to be like putty compared to the budget rocks i've bought so far.

Sure most of them to find their way into a lake so I can have the privilage of buying them all over again

Well see

 

[Parmo]

I was in Sainsburys at the weekend and saw they where selling refinished pro v1 balls for a sale price of $3.99 rrp 12.99, when I looked closer at them I could have tipexed them better.

 

[birdieman]

On a slight aside what do you think the mark-up is on ProV1 balls i.e. the cost to you and me buying them in the pro shop against the cost of manufacturing and distributing them.

I think they're all still made in New England, USA.

I would hazard a guess that there is probably at least a 500% mark up making the Acushnet folks a tidy profit!

 

[billyg]

On a slight aside what do you think the mark-up is on ProV1 balls i.e. the cost to you and me buying them in the pro shop against the cost of manufacturing and distributing them.

I think they're all still made in New England, USA.

I would hazard a guess that there is probably at least a 500% mark up making the Acushnet folks a tidy profit!

I don't even want to think about that one birdieman. Whatever it is, I bet the markup on the lake balls is even higher. In any retail trade ive ever had a hand in the margins in secondhand are much larger than new. Bet MWJ would have something to say on this.

 

[USER1999]

Materials wise you are looking at about 10c a ball, plus manufacturing time, say another 5c, finishing, 5c, packing 6c, printing another 5c, so all up, about 31c per ball.

Therefore about $3.72 per box of 12 ex factory, not including overheads, at say another 5c per ball. Say total ex = $4.32

But they retail over in the states for about $40, so 50% of that is made by the retailer, not including taxes.So probably only $15 per box goes to Acushnet. This doesn't include shipping of course, which will eat into this too. So profit will be $10 less shipping.

Manufacturers normally work on about 40%, so they would trouser per box about $7.

As to what happens here? It is mainly the importer and the retailer who make the cash. We just pay lots more tax (both vat, retail rates and corporation tax), and the shops have higher margins than in the states. Also, because of fuel duty, transportation costs are higher too.

Golf direct do provs at £28 per doz. Not too bad considering.

Just a guess.

 

[medwayjon]

The mark-ups are definately much higher in secondhand than new in my business anyway Billy.

People begrudge the mark-up on things as all they see is the margin between cost-price to the retailer and the retail price. However companies have so many overheads. In my business for example if I make £1000 between cost and retail on a car the following things are lost as costs, VAT on profit @17.5% - £175, Income Tax - £220, Valet - £50, Warranty - £80, Service & MOT, £130.

This leaves a retained profit of £345 without any additional costs accounted for things such as, advertising, electric, insurance, bank charges, business rates, wages, depreciation, telephones, HPi account.

Businesses in all markets have similar expenses so to be honest I really don't begrudge paying whatever the going rate is.

I am sure that the mark-up on lake-balls is higher than new. This is because the balls are bought for pennies, whilst the quality is still fairly good so the retail price can still be high compared to the unit cost.

 

[Mr_Top_Shot]

The mark-ups are definately much higher in secondhand than new in my business anyway Billy.

VAT on profit @17.5% - £175, Income Tax - £220,

This leaves a retained profit of £345 without any additional costs accounted for things such as, advertising, electric, insurance, bank charges, business rates, wages, depreciation, telephones, HPi account.

Not wanting to be anal but as your local freindly accountant, VAT is 17.5% on the net cost. This a charge in addition to the net cost of the vehicle/product, not an expense that is deducted.

Income tax is calculated on net profit which takes into consideration the cost of your overheads, so income tax is not going to be £220 in every thousand.

So your gross profit of £345 is actually going to be quite a bit higher.

I always knew you car salesmen were out to get us

 

[medwayjon]

I am afraid you are wrong their MTS.

We do not pay profit on purchase of used cars. The vat element is calculated as 17.5% of the difference between the purchasing and selling price of the vehicle.

In terms of income tax the figures I quote were from my last tax return in which by proportion, I paid £220 per £1000 profit.

 

[Mr_Top_Shot]

I paid £220 per £1000 profit.

On net profit? or Gross?

 

[medwayjon]

Getting a bit too personal in a public place but happy to discuss the technicalities privately MTS

 

[Mr_Top_Shot]

sort of a bit off topic anyways.

Back on topic i got some lake balls from AG a week or two back. They are meant for practice balls (50 for £9.99 RRP 15.99 or something like that)but seens as i am losing quite a few balls on my course at the moment decided to try and save myself a quid of two. Am finding them alright, nothing to write home about, but i am not that bothered when i smack one far out to the right into the shrubbs. For someone just beginning at my level i would recommend these.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Lake balls for practice is ideal especially the good quality ones (titleist, callaway, TM etc). The problem with lake balls is that the deteriorate if left in water for any great period of time.

As a result there can be huge discrepancies in performance. If you are new to the game they can be a 1/2 decent way of getting used to a premium ball without the outlay. Just don't expect miracle length off the tee. It will vary from ball to ball

 

[Mr_Top_Shot]

If anyone is interested i went into my local JJB Sport last night and looked at the lake balls. Had a real good search round and found 6 very good condition AD333s for 2.99 thought this to be good value.

 

[MikeTimbers]

Reviews consistently show that balls degrade rapidly in water and that costs you yardage. In effect, a Pro V1 that's come out of a lake will have all the performance of a much cheaper ball so why not just buy the cheaper ball? And if you don't know how far the ball will go, how can you decide on what club to hit?

A lot of amateur golfers give themselves no chance of improvement by using poor quality balls. If you lose too many balls to use good ones, consider lessons or simply more practice until you have at least a predictable swing fault. If you can't stop the slice, make it predictable and then allow for it.

Stop losing balls on the course and then use good quality ones. It's amazing what difference it can make!

 

[Mr_Top_Shot]

If you lose too many balls to use good ones, consider lessons or simply more practice until you have at least a predictable swing fault. If you can't stop the slice, make it predictable and then allow for it.

If my golf faults were predictable they would no longer be faults as i would be adjusting for them, i am pretty sure that this would go for most people.

I am not sure i would agree that you can just go for lessons and then all of a sudden not go and lose a few balls a round. Having lessons and puting that into practice when on a course takes time. It is not always as easy as 'you have done it in the lesson so you can do it on the course'. On course you have the added mental challenge, especially for a beginner, aswell as the technical challenge.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I agree. Faults are there because of a flaw in technique. Adjusting for them is only exaggerating or masking the problem. Lessons are the way forward to correcting these errors which in time would reduce the need to buy cheap balls as you would be straighter (and probably longer).

However I realise not everyone can afford a number of lessons and even if you mange to pay for one lesson there is a lot of hard work required to make ANY swing change a permanent and repeatable action.

If you are losing balls regulalry I'd look at the cheaper end of the new ball market where flight and feel characteristics will be constant (as opposed to random in lake balls) and whereby there are replenishable at a reasonable cost.

 

[MikeTimbers]

If you are losing balls regulalry I'd look at the cheaper end of the new ball market where flight and feel characteristics will be constant (as opposed to random in lake balls) and whereby there are replenishable at a reasonable cost.

That's all I was trying to say. Lake balls are not the answer if you are losing balls. better to get new cheaper balls than cheap water-logged formerly-expensive balls.

 

[billyg]

I don't have set of scales sensitive enough but it might be interesting to put a new ball on some that are and then weigh them off against a lake ball of the same type(or indeed several) to see what the variation is. If the weight's the same and the cover isn't damaged I can't see what the difference is apart from them being second hand.