Knockout Matchplay - Divisions?

[Britishshooting]

Do most clubs have divisions for their knockout matches?

I've not entered the knockouts at one club and having only joined this year not sure how they operate.

At the other club however which does have a smaller membership pool the knockouts are never set into divisions, likely because of struggling to get the numbers for all divisions I imagine.

This year we have had an increase in members lots of which have their first handicaps mostly in the 20's, our club is pushing a lot of formats which encourage new members and inclusivity and i'm all for it. We have social nights of golf which ease new members in and gets them taking part in competitions at the weekend etc. My only gripe would be that there is a huge lack of medals as a result and stable ford and team events appear to be the preferred.

I digress on to the knockouts:

Its full handicap and no adjustment out of our scratch team i'm the only remaining player.

One of my PP's lost on Tuesday, he was -2 gross before losing his match on 15 which he birdied however this only achieved a halve for the hole. He couldn't win a single hole with a par and on most occasions lost the hole in these circumstances.

We were having a chat about it last night, not in any malice or bitterness but should there be adjustment? Most of the players in the 20+ handicap region at our club appear more than capable to have a run of pars, usually they'll blow up on one or two holes which would harm them in stroke play but this isn't reflected in matchplay so much, it can be shrugged off and move on at little penalty.

I'm on the fence personally. Handicaps are there to allow a range of people play competitively against one and other however from some of the results that are coming in it seems the low handicappers are getting absolutely trodden on. Mid handicappers it's a toss up as a few have won their matches but now at this stage the field appears to be somewhat the following:

Low Handicappers - 5%
Mid Handicappers - 35%
High Handicappers - 60%

As luck would have it, I have my match tonight giving 20 shots so will see how I get on.

 

[Grant85]

Do most clubs have divisions for their knockout matches?

I've not entered the knockouts at one club and having only joined this year not sure how they operate.

At the other club however which does have a smaller membership pool the knockouts are never set into divisions, likely because of struggling to get the numbers for all divisions I imagine.

This year we have had an increase in members lots of which have their first handicaps mostly in the 20's, our club is pushing a lot of formats which encourage new members and inclusivity and i'm all for it. We have social nights of golf which ease new members in and gets them taking part in competitions at the weekend etc. My only gripe would be that there is a huge lack of medals as a result and stable ford and team events appear to be the preferred.

I digress on to the knockouts:

Its full handicap and no adjustment out of our scratch team i'm the only remaining player.

One of my PP's lost on Tuesday, he was -2 gross before losing his match on 15 which he birdied however this only achieved a halve for the hole. He couldn't win a single hole with a par and on most occasions lost the hole in these circumstances.

We were having a chat about it last night, not in any malice or bitterness but should there be adjustment? Most of the players in the 20+ handicap region at our club appear more than capable to have a run of pars, usually they'll blow up on one or two holes which would harm them in stroke play but this isn't reflected in matchplay so much, it can be shrugged off and move on at little penalty.

I'm on the fence personally. Handicaps are there to allow a range of people play competitively against one and other however from some of the results that are coming in it seems the low handicappers are getting absolutely trodden on. Mid handicappers it's a toss up as a few have won their matches but now at this stage the field appears to be somewhat the following:

Low Handicappers - 5%
Mid Handicappers - 35%
High Handicappers - 60%

As luck would have it, I have my match tonight giving 20 shots so will see how I get on.

Personally not heard of a club doing Knockout divisions.

Clear issue with someone being an 18 handicapper and being in the 'high' division - then getting cut rapidly with 2 good medal rounds and being 3 or 4 shots lower. Ok, assume they'd just have to stay in the high competition off their new handicap.

In my experience, the handicap championship does favour mid and high handicappers, but ultimately comes down to who can play good shots under pressure and hold their nerve in close matches, regardless of handicap.

Some places do full handicap, some do 90%. Ultimately you just have to trust the handicap system.

 

[patricks148]

No, though we do have seeding on the mens individuals.

 

[pendodave]

We have 3 divisions in our main h/c ko comp. I've never heard anyone complain. Lots of other comps are full range, so you can still meet/play against anyone if you sign up for a few.
I think it's a good thing.

 

[2blue]

We operate 3 Div's..….. H/cap 15 & below.... 16 upwards..... & Full Club ie all H/caps

 

[IanG]

No divisions for ours, everyone in one big draw.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

No Divisions for any of our knockouts

 

[GG26]

All in one draw for ours.

My thought is that the low handicappers tend to come through in the end as they will play to or near their handicap far more regularly than a high handicapper.

 

[Orikoru]

As mentioned in Wolf's topic... no divisions in our knockouts, but they are all capped at a certain handicap. Singles capped at 18, most of the pairs ones seem to be capped at 24.

 

[TheDiablo]

Just the one for us.

12 of last 16 this year are Cat 1 and 2 and nobody higher than 17 left in.

Last year was a 5 v 6 in final and year before was 1 v 5 so the cream tends to get through at our place. Don't see why their would need to be split comps.

 

[Wolf]

Weird how we created threads so similar just minutes apart but was first so I win 😜 that's how it works in the playground right 😂

We don't have any divisions just the one all in hence my thread tryi g canvas what people have so I can put something to the club as we're devoid of matchplay pretty much all year.

I also share in your gripe to about lack of medal in favour of stableford or team stableford

 

[jim8flog]

two divisions in our club K.O. matchplay comps up to 13 and 13 -28 (the latter being a traditional comp /

Next year we will probably have a scratch K.O. and a handicap K.O.

We also run a KO stableford comp open to all handicaps (best total stableford points wins, usual stableford rules apply)

 

[duncan mackie]

Any club where you have a lot of new golfers getting first handicaps will have a different profile of knockout winners to one where 90%+ of the entrants have been playing at that club for years.
A quick look at our honours board for summer and winter handicap singles has them dominated by cat 2, with a disproportionate representation from cat 1 as well. Cat 3 get a look in - cat 4 hardly feature at all.
At another club I was a member for years we had a huge through put of new members, new handicaps - and the situation was reversed.
ESRs and supplementals have improved things significantly, but sheer numbers of improves will always represent a challenge.
The other noticeable change over the decades is that courses are now set up much easier, generally for pop reasons (and in others a degree of common sense!) This also flatters many higher handicaps when combined with running course conditions.

 

[Imurg]

I don't know because I have no interest in a competition I'm not allowed to enter...

 

[HampshireHog]

2 divisions in the winter knockouts. No divisions in the summer.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

No divisions and no seeding. Random draw and just beat the man in front of you

 

[2blue]

Any club where you have a lot of new golfers getting first handicaps will have a different profile of knockout winners to one where 90%+ of the entrants have been playing at that club for years.
A quick look at our honours board for summer and winter handicap singles has them dominated by cat 2, with a disproportionate representation from cat 1 as well. Cat 3 get a look in - cat 4 hardly feature at all.
At another club I was a member for years we had a huge through put of new members, new handicaps - and the situation was reversed.
ESRs and supplementals have improved things significantly, but sheer numbers of improves will always represent a challenge.
The other noticeable change over the decades is that courses are now set up much easier, generally for pop reasons (and in others a degree of common sense!) This also flatters many higher handicaps when combined with running course conditions.

Exactly this at our place.... last year a 100 plus new members many new to golf & keen enough to be taking lesson & bothered about getting better. Even with 80 or more Q Comps a year they still will dominate but we're bring new enthusiasts into golf.

 

[rulefan]

now at this stage the field appears to be somewhat the following:
Low Handicappers - 5%
Mid Handicappers - 35%
High Handicappers - 60%

What was the proportions of entrants?

Myth …..
“It is unfair in singles match play to require the lower handicap player to concede full handicap difference to his opponent.

Numerous researchers and golfing bodies including the United States Golf Association, English Golf Union and Scottish Golf Union have investigated the relative merits of full versus three-quarters difference in handicap.
• All of these independent pieces of research have come to a single conclusion – full difference between the handicaps of the two players is clearly the more equitable allowance.
• A Scottish Golf Union survey covering 4000 handicap singles matches showed:
¾ Diff - Matches won by lower handicap player 61%
Full Diff. - Matches won by the higher handicap player 55%
From the above it can be seen that even when conceding full difference the lower handicap player retains an advantage.

The disparity is more pronounced the greater the difference in handicaps.

In a much smaller sample the following extreme was shown. At over 12, the balance was 100% in favour of the lower handicapper. That is a fairly dramatic example of the bias in favour of the better player but the general trend repeats in the majority of club singles handicap events.