John Rahm's ball repositioning

[Yant]

Initially marking your ball to the side and then re-marking it to the rear is not replacing your ball in the same place.

It was clearly a rules breach.

However, there needs to be some sort of direction given that public observations of rule breaches will not be acknowledged. Rules will be dealt with by the officials on ground at the time. Does this happen in any other sport?

 

[bobmac]

''A similar incident of not replacing the ball marker happened sixty years ago.
At the 1957 British Open at St Andrews Bobby Locke, then aged 39, marked his ball one putter-head off the line of his playing partner Bruce Crampton’s putt at the 72nd hole. When he came to putt, he forgot to replace his ball marker in its original spot and putted from the wrong place. The error was only picked up on newsreel film and reported to the Royal and Ancient officials after the trophy had been presented. As Bobby Locke had a three shot lead over Peter Thomson, the Championship committee after an eight-day delay concluded that he had gained no advantage. Citing the equity and spirit of the game, the Committee decided that he should not be disqualified.''

 

[TheJezster]

And quite right too. Nice share Bob thanks

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Am I right in thinking that he marked it at 11 o'clock and then replaced it closer to 10 o'clock and that's why the ref decided that there was no gain from it ?

 

[duncan mackie]

Am I right in thinking that he marked it at 11 o'clock and then replaced it closer to 10 o'clock and that's why the ref decided that there was no gain from it ?

The relationship between the ball and the marker when marking and replacing was noticeably different - everyone agrees about that.

Exactly what that would mean in terms of the balls position is not defined (but it would be small)

Much more importantly, after the marker was placed initially it was moved a significant distance to clear the other players line - after which it was returned to a 'similar position by a reversal of this process and the ball then replaced.

IMO it is entirely possible that the ball ended up exactly where it was - equally it could have ended up at a point with a variance significantly greater than that associated with the relative position of the marker and ball in the first, and last, steps.

 

[Matty]

I've watched the TV footage a few times over and I have to say I could not be certain from that footage that the ball was replaced in a different position. Where there is reasonable doubt the game should continue IMO.

 

[ManinBlack]

Materiality must come into it if the error was unintentional. Strictly, virtually every player never replaces a ball exactly where it was previously, it will always be millimetre or ½ a millimetre out. Why aren't they penalised? Because the error is unmeasurable & doesn't give the player any advantage.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

I don't understand people still questioning it, once the full explanation was given it was clear.

 

[shivas irons]

So Garcia clearly moved his ball when removing a twig & goes on to win the Masters,Rahm improved his position by a suggested 9 inches and goes on to win the Irish Open and Lexi Thompson loses a major after being penalised for an incident which is no worse than what the other two aforementioned did
What is going on with the rules of golf nowdays at elite level tour golf,is there actually any point in having referees?.Ok no intention I agree but rules are rules and whats the point in making them if they are not going to be implemented?.All this is making a mockery of what was once the most honourable sport and its not just tourney golf as even at club level theres all sorts going on nowdays,anychance we can get the gentlemans game back?.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

So Garcia clearly moved his ball when removing a twig & goes on to win the Masters,Rahm improved his position by a suggested 9 inches and goes on to win the Irish Open and Lexi Thompson loses a major after being penalised for an incident which is no worse than what the other two aforementioned did
What is going on with the rules of golf nowdays at elite level tour golf,is there actually any point in having referees?.Ok no intention I agree but rules are rules and whats the point in making them if they are not going to be implemented?.All this is making a mockery of what was once the most honourable sport and its not just tourney golf as even at club level theres all sorts going on nowdays,anychance we can get the gentlemans game back?.

Garcia "clearly didn't move his ball" - it required ultra slow slow slow mo replay to see the tiniest of movement which was clearly unable to see with the naked eye hence clearly defined within the rules

Rahm replaced the ball extremely close to were he had previously marked the Ball and the referee clearly agreeed there was no advantage and even had a second set of eyes look at it

Thompson was clearly different to both situations

She marked the ball , picked it up and then put it straight back down in a clearly different position all the same movement gaining an advantage

And there has been all sorts going on at golf clubs for decades and decades

 

[drdel]

So Garcia clearly moved his ball when removing a twig & goes on to win the Masters,Rahm improved his position by a suggested 9 inches and goes on to win the Irish Open and Lexi Thompson loses a major after being penalised for an incident which is no worse than what the other two aforementioned did
What is going on with the rules of golf nowdays at elite level tour golf,is there actually any point in having referees?.Ok no intention I agree but rules are rules and whats the point in making them if they are not going to be implemented?.All this is making a mockery of what was once the most honourable sport and its not just tourney golf as even at club level theres all sorts going on nowdays,anychance we can get the gentlemans game back?.

The point of my OP post was to highlight the sensationalisation by the pundits who claimed it was a 9inch move when in reality, as the Ref on the spot confirmed, it was an unintentional error that led to no material advantage. Thus IMO the ref was right and common sense prevailed.

 

[Imurg]

The "advantage" part doesn't come in to it. It's about replacing in the correct spot - advantage of not, it shouldn't come into it.
It's pretty clear that Rahm replaced in the wrong position, albeit not a great distance.
My issue is that because he thought he'd put it back in the right place that's good enough for the Andy McFee, even though Andy McFee agrees that the ball didn't go back on the correct spot.
The potential for moving a ball out of a depression or away from a spike mark and, when challenged, claiming that you believe you've replaced correctly is worrying.
Yes, it's highly unlikely that we ever replace exactly on the same spot, but it's there or thereabouts. Rahm's ball was, maybe 2-5 mm off. But with big ball markers becoming popular, marking at 10 o'clock and replacing at 11 o'clock could be a lot more.
And if the player maintains that he believes he's replaced in the correct spot, what's anyone going to be able to do about it?

 

[shivas irons]

Garcia "clearly didn't move his ball" - it required ultra slow slow slow mo replay to see the tiniest of movement which was clearly unable to see with the naked eye hence clearly defined within the rules

Rahm replaced the ball extremely close to were he had previously marked the Ball and the referee clearly agreeed there was no advantage and even had a second set of eyes look at it

Thompson was clearly different to both situations

She marked the ball , picked it up and then put it straight back down in a clearly different position all the same movement gaining an advantage

And there has been all sorts going on at golf clubs for decades and decades

All youve said is rubbish,you say Garcia's ball didnt move and then say it did
Rahm & Thompson did the same thing
And theres no way club golfs as honourable as it was.
Why do you constantly want an argument with people,is your life really that dull that your prepared to trash talk to get a reaction?
Honestly mate your becoming the laughing stock on here,
Ive said it before and i'll say it again,I dont want you responding to messages I post.....

 

[BTatHome]

All youve said is rubbish,you say Garcia's ball didnt move and then say it did
Rahm & Thompson did the same thing
And theres no way club golfs as honourable as it was.
Why do you constantly want an argument with people,is your life really that dull that your prepared to trash talk to get a reaction?
Honestly mate your becoming the laughing stock on here,
Ive said it before and i'll say it again,I dont want you responding to messages I post.....

Maybe if it's said by someone different ....

Garcia didn't 'clearly' move his ball.it required slow motion footage zoomed in to detect it (according to what was written) hence but by the current rules it didn't need to be penalised.

Rahm did not move it 9 inches, even a couple of mm is debatable and again apparently is covered by the rules (as the rules official cleared him)

Lexi was over the ball, marked it and immediately put it down in a different spot ... the process was not the same as Rahm and hence they weren't the same.



Overall it makes little difference to anyone as the rules official spoke and made no penalty decision ... even explaining at great length afterwards the process they took.

.... as the chump Chamblee and his ridiculous statements, well he's just out to cause headlines .... as he tries to do everything he opens his mouth.

 

[Tiger Woods]

Am I right in thinking that he marked it at 11 o'clock and then replaced it closer to 10 o'clock and that's why the ref decided that there was no gain from it ?

I dropped my ball slightly behind my original divot at the Master 13 which as you say gives me no advantage as I'm further away. I was penalised 2 shots

That damn flagstick cost me my 15th major ne:

 

[duncan mackie]

The "advantage" part doesn't come in to it. It's about replacing in the correct spot - advantage of not, it shouldn't come into it.
It's pretty clear that Rahm replaced in the wrong position, albeit not a great distance.
My issue is that because he thought he'd put it back in the right place that's good enough for the Andy McFee, even though Andy McFee agrees that the ball didn't go back on the correct spot.

I don't believe that there is any evidence that says the ball was replaced in a different position.

The evidence is that the ball was replaced in a different position relative to the marker than it was when removed - but the marker has itself been moved and replaced by a less that absolutely accurate process

Put another way, the ball could have been replaced in exactly the same orientation and still be in a different place from where it was originally.

 

[duncan mackie]

I dropped my ball slightly behind my original divot at the Master 13 which as you say gives me no advantage as I'm further away. I was penalised 2 shots

That damn flagstick cost me my 15th major ne:

You were adjudged to have dropped it within an acceptable tolerance at no advantage by the committee - until you stated at a press conference that you had deliberately dropped it (at what was a wrong place) in order to gain an advantage...

 

[Tiger Woods]

You were adjudged to have dropped it within an acceptable tolerance at no advantage by the committee - until you stated at a press conference that you had deliberately dropped it (at what was a wrong place) in order to gain an advantage...

Ill learn to keep my mouth shut in future or say what they want to hear

 

[Deleted member 15344]

All youve said is rubbish,you say Garcia's ball didnt move and then say it did
Rahm & Thompson did the same thing
And theres no way club golfs as honourable as it was.
Why do you constantly want an argument with people,is your life really that dull that your prepared to trash talk to get a reaction?
Honestly mate your becoming the laughing stock on here,
Ive said it before and i'll say it again,I dont want you responding to messages I post.....

:rofl:

Get a grip

Thompson and Rahm didn't do the same thing - that's quite clear to anyone who knows both situations. Thompson "clearly" marked her ball then moved it to a clear different spot at a full 90 degrees - Rahm didn't - it was a fraction of MM at best

Garcia by the clear rules didn't occur a penalty - if the ball cant be seen to move by the naked eye and it's only visible by slow mo zoomed replays then it's not a penalty - as clearly defined by the rules - it's not rubbish , it's not trash talk - it's facts , maybe learn to deal with them

 

[Orikoru]

Am I right in thinking that he marked it at 11 o'clock and then replaced it closer to 10 o'clock and that's why the ref decided that there was no gain from it ?

So he went back in time?? That's amazing, he shouldn't be penalised for that!

Either that or it took him 11 hours to replace the ball, in which case slow play really is getting out of hand in the professional game.