John Bercow - right or wrong?

Loved Mika's comment at the end

"I hope -- it's stupidity at this point -- I'm really -- I'm banking on that -- because otherwise we are in really big trouble - I'm not kidding"
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
Could be on the Trump thread or this one - but for me it adds to why Speaker Bercow is correct - I think what they say is very important

I'll just suggest some might like to listen to this from Morning Joe today - on Trumps views on the Judiciary the free press - and they refer to the constitution and Magna Carta. It's 20mins but makes interesting listening.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQaOUiuXMHE&list=PLDIVi-vBsOEy6jMSt_r_SMj9F5tuqdtKe&index=6

Bear in mind that Joe Scarborough is a Republican (ex-Congressman) and Mika Brzezinski is a Democrat (her father is Zbigniew Brzezinski - Pres. Carters NSA). Now this is how many American political commentators see Trump and what he is doing and the risks he presents - and as they say - what he is saying is deeply disturbing. Also mention of Judge Gorsuch's views on what Trump is saying and Yemen (what Trump is saying and doing ...'it's really and truly dangerous)

And given they refer back to Magna Carta - their thoughts on judiciary independence and the importance of the role of the judiciary are telling I think in the context of our own Art50 debate.

Morning Joe is the most watched US cable political news programme. Day 20 and Mika and Joe are exhausted trying to come to terms with, unravel and understand what Trump is doing in creating his own reality.
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The important issue with Bercow is that he apears to be shooting from the hip and not abiding by accepted Parliamentary standards. We have just been through a drawn out procedure with A50 over people wanting procedures regarding parliament to be adhered to so what's different about this one.
 
Vote of no confidence being tabled and once that starts getting some support, it's likely he'll stand down of his own accord.
 
Anyone bothered watching the 20min segment from Morning Joe. When you hear explained in detail the very serious concerns that many political commentators in the US have about their president - then ask about whether he needs his ego stroked by being invited to address the joint houses - or whether he needs a good slap from us - telling him that his behaviour, words and actions are totally inconsistent with the values and beliefs that have made the UK and the USA great friends and partners - and which underpin why we have had a 'special relationship' in the past.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQaOUiuXMHE

Because none of us make friends or get close to people whose values are at odds with our own - and if we have to for pragmatic reasons then we make very, very clear our concerns and reservations and keep them at arms length and absolutely no closer than we have to. We may invite them into our house for a chat - we do not offer them dinner and a bed for the night. And if that person does not change and continues to act contrary to what is important to us - then we scrap the relationship.
 
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I don't think that most folk here really know what's been going on with Trump over the last 20days. We get little snippets on the news - but I have been keeping pretty close - and many are truly aghast and worried. When you get an understanding - I found it very easy to support Speaker Bercow

This is why I ask those who might say Bercow is wrong - to actually watch the clip I've posted the link to. Joe Scarborough is actually accused of trying to make sense of what Trump is doing - when what Trump is doing is completely ignorant nonsense - it is just not possible to make sense of what he is saying and doing. And many folks across the pond do actually believed he is slightly (more or less) unhinged - and will become every more so as he fights to control and beat the system - and fails.
 
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Whatever the rights or wrong on this and many other contentious issues running on here, the constant castigation of anything those "so informed" of anything other than their own thoughts and ideas has left me totally agnostic to the whole lots of the running threads. Reasoned debate appears to be swept aside in the "I am right" world this and certain others threads have taken.
I suspect many are like me, in that the constant shouting in your ear has left you deaf to all sides.
 
Bunkermagnet said:
Whatever the rights or wrong on this and many other contentious issues running on here, the constant castigation of anything those "so informed" of anything other than their own thoughts and ideas has left me totally agnostic to the whole lots of the running threads. Reasoned debate appears to be swept aside in the "I am right" world this and certain others threads have taken.
I suspect many are like me, in that the constant shouting in your ear has left you deaf to all sides.
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Just try watching the clip and tell us what you think. That's all I'm saying. Without needing to know anything else the clip would have convinced me that Speaker Bercow is right. Trump needs a 'good slap' from the UK if we are going to be his friend. Not getting invited to address the joint houses is a 'good slap'.
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
Just try watching the clip and tell us what you think. That's all I'm saying. Without needing to know anything else the clip would have convinced me that Speaker Bercow is right. Trump needs a 'good slap' from the UK if we are going to be his friend. Not getting invited to address the joint houses is a 'good slap'.
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I can't hear you:)
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
Just try watching the clip and tell us what you think. That's all I'm saying. Without needing to know anything else the clip would have convinced me that Speaker Bercow is right. Trump needs a 'good slap' from the UK if we are going to be his friend. Not getting invited to address the joint houses is a 'good slap'.
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You insist on arguing the Bercow is right because he agrees with your sentiments. The real point however is the Bercow is Speaker of the HoC- a post that relies on keeping the Standards of the HoC by the convention that the 'job' is politically neutral.

As a direct consequence of Bercow speaking beyond his remit he was wrong. It is not material to the thread's debate whether Trump needs a slap or Brexit is right or wrong - Bercow is not speaking for the Government or the UK.

When he took the position of Speaker he agreed to the T&Cs of the role and that does not entitle him to use the 'Chair' of the HoC to express his personal opinions - if he wants to broadcast his view then resign, become elected as an MP and shout what he likes from where he likes.
 
drdel said:
You insist on arguing the Bercow is right because he agrees with your sentiments. The real point however is the Bercow is Speaker of the HoC- a post that relies on keeping the Standards of the HoC by the convention that the 'job' is politically neutral.

As a direct consequence of Bercow speaking beyond his remit he was wrong. It is not material to the thread's debate whether Trump needs a slap or Brexit is right or wrong - Bercow is not speaking for the Government or the UK.

When he took the position of Speaker he agreed to the T&Cs of the role and that does not entitle him to use the 'Chair' of the HoC to express his personal opinions - if he wants to broadcast his view then resign, become elected as an MP and shout what he likes from where he likes.
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This ^^^^^^^^
 
Really can't understand why anyone feels the need to attempt to 'big up' Bercow...

He represents, more completely than most, all that is wrong with the 'political classes'... The very people that 'delivered' Trump to where he is...
 
All I know about Trump is what I can understand by watching and listening to US news and politics programmes. Pointless trying to inform the debate using proper sources rather than just my opinion. Which is all I have been trying to do.

I'm out.
 
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drdel said:
You insist on arguing the Bercow is right because he agrees with your sentiments. The real point however is the Bercow is Speaker of the HoC- a post that relies on keeping the Standards of the HoC by the convention that the 'job' is politically neutral.

As a direct consequence of Bercow speaking beyond his remit he was wrong. It is not material to the thread's debate whether Trump needs a slap or Brexit is right or wrong - Bercow is not speaking for the Government or the UK.

When he took the position of Speaker he agreed to the T&Cs of the role and that does not entitle him to use the 'Chair' of the HoC to express his personal opinions - if he wants to broadcast his view then resign, become elected as an MP and shout what he likes from where he likes.
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^^^ This basically wraps it up for me
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
All I know about Trump is what I can understand by watching and listening to US news and politics programmes. Pointless trying to inform the debate using proper sources rather than just my opinion. Which is all I have been trying to do.

I'm out.
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What you should be trying to understand is why, despite very early signs Clinton was not electable, the Democrats kept her as their candidate... No way should the election have been lost to Trump... He didn't 'win' they simply 'lost' it... Hopefully this is one huge wake up call and they come to their senses for next time round... They need to listen to the people and actually hear what they are being told... Perhaps ignoring the Hollywood luvvies for the next four years might be a good move also...
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
All I know about Trump is what I can understand by watching and listening to US news and politics programmes. Pointless trying to inform the debate using proper sources rather than just my opinion. Which is all I have been trying to do.

I'm out.
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Will you be bemoaning Brexit in the "Articles for Sale' now?
 
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