January Transfer 'Window'..

[Papas1982]

I haven't implied anything and haven't been proved incorrect, I simply highlighted the fact of submitted squad numbers across certain clubs as of August as required by all clubs to do and clearly stated that their would be a couple of anomalies here and there due to the period being extended to September due to the transfer deadline being different! You have attempted to push our squad up to 50 by using and adding our 24 loan players to our numbered squad, but make no allowance for the other clubs I've highlighted, who obviously have a certain amount of players also out on loan, don't they? Now that's manipulation :smirk:

Bonus of a night shift is the time for researcayers listed for UTD includes the 3 players they have loaned out. Liverppol squad total of 37 listed with 7 pf those loaned out. Chelsea have a squad list of 26 including Moses who is loaned out, in addition to that they have a further 24 players loaned out, giving them a squad of 50. Not so small maybe. All figures can be manipulated to show what you want.


You alligned your squad to that of past champions saying you had a 'mere' 26 players. That to me is trying to make a point. Or why say it at all?
In case the above highlights aren't clear enough.
UTD have total squad 1st team/youth team of 42 players. That is inclusive of the players they have out on loan.
Liverpool's number is 37.
Yours would be 50 using same criteria.
Thats no maniuplation. That is true numbers. As to the one other team you mentione that i didn't look into. City have named a first team of 25 players. There large number is including all their youth players that they can include due to them being home grown. Something that chelsea cant do as so many of them are foreign.
Having checked your litle list of all squads, it looks to me that all squads are either on the large side to due listing all squads or 26 ish due to only naming a 1st team squad with no youth reserve.

If you would care to explain what exactly i have manipulated i'm all ears.

 

[Fish]

UTD have total squad 1st team/youth team of 42 players. That is inclusive of the players they have out on loan.

45 actually

Liverpool's number is 37.

44 actually

As to the one other team you mentione that i didn't look into. City have named a first team of 25 players. There large number is including all their youth players that they can include due to them being home grown. Something that chelsea cant do as so many of them are foreign.

I've just looked at these so-called home grown players in their (Man City's) youth and in some of the other clubs mentioned and I can count the 'home grown' ones on 1 hand at times!

From our 20 under 21's, 11 of them are 'home grown' and 9 of our 12 Academy players are all home grown again, so your infatuation of us having so many foreign players and not being able to list our home grown youth is based on what? These youngsters don't have squad numbers and don't need them, I'm sure their are many like this amongst the other teams I've mentioned but the fact remains, 20 of our 32 academy/youth players are home grown.

Also, 1/3rd of our loan players are home grown also.

 

[Papas1982]

Do you know what inclusive means? That means that liverpool listed 37 players, 7 of that 37 are out on loan. Meaning a total of 37 players. Not 37 + 7. 37. Same for UTD 42, 3 of them loaned out. Meaning 42.

City's players may not be called smith, brown or jones but they still have 63% home grown 17/27 and 83% 20/24 of their academy. The point is this. Depending how you (i meananybody, not just your good self) wish to manipulate numbers chelsea can be made to have a squad ranging from 26 - probably 65 if you include loanees and youth. Just as city could be made to have only 25 if you* wished.

As for your home grown. I would hardly suggest having 55% home grown players in your youth team as something to counter a claim that you have foreign players. I would expect your academy to be 100% homegrown to be honest as a lot of countries academys try to restrict players leaving until they reach a certain age. 4/26 foreign in UTDS youth players kinda makes a mockery of yours in my opinion.

Again, if you could explain what i've maniupluated, then go ahead. All my stats i've given direct comparisons to other teams to show true info.

 

[Liverbirdie]

The high squad numbers are slightly moot. It's what make up the squad that is important.

How many of them would actually be used in a premier league game, unless a huge raft of injuries? Some would not even be used in the early rounds of the Carling cup. They are kids in most squads.

It would be more interesting to see what the transfer values (in) of the top likely to be used 25 players would be. That is where the alarming difference would be. Would Liverpool's be 200 Mill, would City/Chelsea be £4-500 mill? That is what the kicker is.

 

[Pin-seeker]

How many world class players have come from the youth academy of Arsenal,Chelsea,utd,Liverpool,City,spurs in the last 10yr?
Not many I'd guess.

 

[Liverbirdie]

How many world class players have come from the youth academy of Arsenal,Chelsea,utd,Liverpool,City,spurs in the last 10yr?
Not many I'd guess.

None I can think of off the top of my head, probably a good few in the 10 years before that. Terry, Beckham, Scholes, Gerrard, Fowler, Owen, some would say Carragher, some wouldn't.Possibly a few more also.

Due to the increased squad sizes of the last 10 years and the influx of more foreign youth players is possibly stymieing them, or a lack of technique in an increasingly technical English game is another reason. how many world class players from Ireland and Scotland have come to the EPL in the last 10 years, which was a traditional breeding ground for the previous century?

 

[Pin-seeker]

Yeah their was quite a few around the time you mentioned. Just doesn't seem to happen now.
I'd definitely say Carragher,he'd get into any current Prem team if he was 10yr younger.

Maybe Jack Wilshere?

 

[Liverbirdie]

Yeah their was quite a few around the time you mentioned. Just doesn't seem to happen now.
I'd definitely say Carragher,he'd get into any current Prem team if he was 10yr younger.

Maybe Jack Wilshere?

I'd say Carragher was a world class defender for 2-3 years of his career, but not a world class footballer. To me there is a difference.

I think Wilshere will be, but not just yet. Possibly Joe hart in another 2-3 years if he puts this loss of form behind him, and as he matures.

I dont think Raheem sterling will be, but watch out for another coming through just behind him called Jordan Ibe - he looks fearsome at 17.

 

[Blue in Munich]

Those numbers can be looked at 2 ways, I would suggest that most of the other teams have higher numbers for 2 reasons. 1 they include their youth players who qualify under the home grown rule and, secondly Chelsea either don't have any or have no faith in their youth system. Something chelsea can't do as they either don;t have enough or deem them not good enough. PLayers like Eachran for eaxmple, many chelsea fans i know wanted him to be given a chance recently ut he gets farmed out whilst you bring in more big name players. I'm sure if we looked at the total value of squads, your 'mere' 26 would value quite highly.

Bonus of a night shift is the time for research, the 42 players listed for UTD includes the 3 players they have loaned out. Liverppol squad total of 37 listed with 7 pf those loaned out. Chelsea have a squad list of 26 including Moses who is loaned out, in addition to that they have a further 24 players loaned out, giving them a squad of 50. Not so small maybe. All figures can be manipulated to show what you want.

Could you name them please, as my source is only showing 17 further players out on loan?

 

[Papas1982]

Could you name them please, as my source is only showing 17 further players out on loan?

Not sure there's a better source than your own website.
http://www.chelseafc.com/on-loan-players

In case that doesn't work. You just go to you official site, look at Saudis and there's a list of them online.

Getting rather tedious now though going over something that wasn't even my main point.

 

[Pin-seeker]

I'd say Carragher was a world class defender for 2-3 years of his career, but not a world class footballer. To me there is a difference.

I think Wilshere will be, but not just yet. Possibly Joe hart in another 2-3 years if he puts this loss of form behind him, and as he matures.

I dont think Raheem sterling will be, but watch out for another coming through just behind him called Jordan Ibe - he looks fearsome at 17.

Id say if your a world class defender that makes you a world class player. Maldini is surely one of the best players of all time. Obviously totally different to Ronaldo or Zidane.

 

[Papas1982]

Id say if your a world class defender that makes you a world class player. Maldini is surely one of the best players of all time. Obviously totally different to Ronaldo or Zidane.

I think car ragged was a very good defender. And the fans loved him. But for me there has to be a certain mental attitude with it too. I don't like the fact he quit England as he didn't like the competition. If you're only the 3rd best defender in your country (I'd probably say 4th behind King). I don't think you can be world class.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I think car ragged was a very good defender. And the fans loved him. But for me there has to be a certain mental attitude with it too. I don't like the fact he quit England as he didn't like the competition. If you're only the 3rd best defender in your country (I'd probably say 4th behind King). I don't think you can be world class.

Carra was for 2-3 year period a top defender in European Football - better than Terry IMO in that period and I didnt blame him for quitting when Sven picked King ( who spent months and months being injured. )

Scholes also quit when Lampard was picked ahead of him and that didn't stop him being World Class

World class is a phrase that gets bandied around far too easily now and should only be used for possibly the top 5-10 in the world

 

[Papas1982]

Carra was for 2-3 year period a top defender in European Football - better than Terry IMO in that period and I didnt blame him for quitting when Sven picked King ( who spent months and months being injured. )

Scholes also quit when Lampard was picked ahead of him and that didn't stop him being World Class

World class is a phrase that gets bandied around far too easily now and should only be used for possibly the top 5-10 in the world

I never said the others were world class either. I would suggest the last world class players we have had are ferdinand til injuries, cole, Gerarrd and for a period of years Owen as an out and out finisher.

Scholes was a top top player for 10 years. He didn't just have a hit few years like Carra who was dependable his whole career but for me never shone. Scholes also quit for for different reasons altogether as he was constantly played out of position and felt he didn't do left midfield justice. Not because of a paddy. Epitomised by him sticking to his guns and not coming back just coz he thought he'd get a game like Carra. I feel Carras pain about king being picked, but I still think a fit king was better than Carra. Se players are always over looked. I don't think you'll find a better example than Le Tiss.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I never said the others were world class either. I would suggest the last world class players we have had are ferdinand til injuries, cole, Gerarrd and for a period of years Owen as an out and out finisher.

Scholes was a top top player for 10 years. He didn't just have a hit few years like Carra who was dependable his whole career but for me never shone. Scholes also quit for for different reasons altogether as he was constantly played out of position and felt he didn't do left midfield justice. Not because of a paddy. Epitomised by him sticking to his guns and not coming back just coz he thought he'd get a game like Carra. I feel Carras pain about king being picked, but I still think a fit king was better than Carra. Se players are always over looked. I don't think you'll find a better example than Le Tiss.

Carra shone for us for a great amount of years - even going back to the 00/01 season when he played as a left back - under Rafa at CB he was outstanding and even last season he was great. He didn't have a "paddy" he just decided it wasn't worth him going away for internationals to sit on the bench when he could rest to save his energy for his club.

Scholes quit because Lampard was picked ahead of him alongside Gerrard and Scholes was shifted sideways. He also decided to concentrate his efforts on his club

Players quitting England to concentrate on their club football will always get a big thumbs up from me - I wished Gerrard did a while back.

 

[Papas1982]

He may have shine for you, but that effectively means he shine for a team that during his 15 years at the club were only good side. Yes I know you won cups before that's all raised. But in the league he was part of a defence that wasn't good enough. I'm not saying he wasn't a very very good player. But for me, he was never world class. Neither was terry. For me they're both great British players who get stuck in and look great on camera. But lacked the class that would make them truly world class.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

He may have shine for you, but that effectively means he shine for a team that during his 15 years at the club were only good side. Yes I know you won cups before that's all raised. But in the league he was part of a defence that wasn't good enough. I'm not saying he wasn't a very very good player. But for me, he was never world class. Neither was terry. For me they're both great British players who get stuck in and look great on camera. But lacked the class that would make them truly world class.

He was part of a defence that statistically was a lot better than just "good" ( 3 out of 5 years we had the best record in the league ) and one of those cups was the biggest in the club football

Carra spend a 3-4 period having every top striker in his pocket at one stage. Can remember Henry turning him inside out but not many others. As someone has said earlier he was world class at defending during that period - he may not have looked good on the ball or a wonderful passer but as a defender there wasn't many better in Europe during that period. He may not have had world class skills but as pure defender he was top of the tree

 

[Papas1982]

He was part of a defence that statistically was a lot better than just "good" ( 3 out of 5 years we had the best record in the league ) and one of those cups was the biggest in the club football

Carra spend a 3-4 period having every top striker in his pocket at one stage. Can remember Henry turning him inside out but not many others. As someone has said earlier he was world class at defending during that period - he may not have looked good on the ball or a wonderful passer but as a defender there wasn't many better in Europe during that period. He may not have had world class skills but as pure defender he was top of the tree

The cup wins are unimportant to me I'm afraid. Especially the big one you mention, Your defence didn't win you that one. Gerrard did, all they way back to his beauty in he groups. Much like maradonna won Argentina a world cup. For me having a world class period of 3-4 years dont make you a world class player. Much like right now Suarez in undoubtedly playing world class and in 18 months if he still is then he will rightly be one of the top players in the world. But for me, world class players sustain it their enitre careers, which the likes of Maldini, Gerrard, Cole, Ronaldo (either) and messi etc. I'm sure carra would have graced many a club side, but would he have been in a world 11 at any point. And for me, thats why he wasnt world class.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

The cup wins are unimportant to me I'm afraid. Especially the big one you mention, Your defence didn't win you that one. Gerrard did, all they way back to his beauty in he groups. Much like maradonna won Argentina a world cup. For me having a world class period of 3-4 years dont make you a world class player. Much like right now Suarez in undoubtedly playing world class and in 18 months if he still is then he will rightly be one of the top players in the world. But for me, world class players sustain it their enitre careers, which the likes of Maldini, Gerrard, Cole, Ronaldo (either) and messi etc. I'm sure carra would have graced many a club side, but would he have been in a world 11 at any point. And for me, thats why he wasnt world class.

The CL unimportant ? Really ? It's the Holy Grail of club football in Europe.

And if you think our defence didn't have a part to play then suggest you re watch the Juve away game when the defence was outstanding - plus Carras performance in the final especially extra time was outstanding. I never called Carra world class but for a 4 year period he was one of the best in Europe and proved it in the CL each week.

And Suarez is already one of the top 3 in the world right now

 

[drawboy]

I do not know anything about football, I'm from Leeds