I've quit senior golf

[D-S]

Course Rating or Slope? They are different things.

As the numbers are 129 and 120 it must be slope, it would be interesting to know if the CR changed as well.

 

[Swango1980]

As the numbers are 129 and 120 it must be slope, it would be interesting to know if the CR changed as well.

Well, extremely likely, as I doubt is would just be the BR?

 

[clubchamp98]

Play with clubs from an era suited to the course!

It’s been lengthened hence easier for me off the whites.

 

[clubchamp98]

Equally if the bunkers are too far away for the bogey golfer and in play for the scratch golfer it will make the course relatively easier for the bogey golfer in comparison with the scratch player so this will reduce the slope (which shows the relative difficulty of the course between a scratch and bogey player).

Yes we had an elite comp last Sunday some of the scores were so high it left me wondering if the course is very hard or a 1 handicapper who can’t break 90 shouldn’t be in the field.

But he wasn’t the only one

 

[clubchamp98]

Course Rating or Slope? They are different things.

Slope 120 par 72 CR 71.7.

 

[wjemather]

Yes we had an elite comp last Sunday some of the scores were so high it left me wondering if the course is very hard or a 1 handicapper who can’t break 90 shouldn’t be in the field.

But he wasn’t the only one

A PCC of +3 confirms that conditions were abnormally very difficult.

And while no-one failed to break 90 both rounds, anyone can have a bad day, even a 1 (or better) handicapper, and for any number of reasons.

 

[clubchamp98]

A PCC of +3 confirms that conditions were abnormally very difficult.

And while no-one failed to break 90 both rounds, anyone can have a bad day, even a 1 (or better) handicapper, and for any number of reasons.

Come on how many 1 handicappers shoot 90+ on a bad day?

A 75 is a bad day for a 1 handicapper.

PCC +3 was because the scores were shocking but I was there ,it was raining but not that bad in the morning but ok pm.
These scores are really poor.
The course was closed to everyone else so only the elite scores counted.

 

[wjemather]

Come on how many 1 handicappers shoot 90+ on a bad day?

A 75 is a bad day for a 1 handicapper.

PCC +3 was because the scores were shocking but I was there ,it was raining but not that bad in the morning but ok pm.
These scores are really poor.
The course was closed to everyone else so only the elite scores counted.

Happens all the time, especially in open scratch events. I've done it more than once (almost did it again a couple of weeks ago - and I wasn't even having a bad day really!).

75 is very much above average scoring for a scratch golfer on a course playing to an adjusted Course Rating of well over 74.

I've never understood why some clubs feel compelled to produce unnecessarily difficult course setups for these types of events.

 

[howbow88]

In terms of your last paragraph, it is a contradiction.

You can't be welcoming of people of all abilities if you can't accept players who are only capable of playing with those sorts of high handicaps

It really isn't.

I think players that arent the best are welcome on the course, but not to the detriment of everyone else. Playing stableford, limiting the handicap to 28, picking up when you can't score, etc. So you can be as bad as you want, but putting for a 9 when it isn't a medal?! No. Nonsense that delays everyone else.

I think the 28 handicap limit worked well. The first aim of nearly every golfer once they have played a few rounds is to break 100. Getting a score over par of 26, 27, etc would usually achieve this. Rewarding scores of 125+ is just absurd and more importantly, it holds up so many other golfers in following groups. That for me if the key problem above all.

 

[Swango1980]

It really isn't.

I think players that arent the best are welcome on the course, but not to the detriment of everyone else. Playing stableford, limiting the handicap to 28, picking up when you can't score, etc. So you can be as bad as you want, but putting for a 9 when it isn't a medal?! No. Nonsense that delays everyone else.

I think the 28 handicap limit worked well. The first aim of nearly every golfer once they have played a few rounds is to break 100. Getting a score over par of 26, 27, etc would usually achieve this. Rewarding scores of 125+ is just absurd and more importantly, it holds up so many other golfers in following groups. That for me if the key problem above all.

Firstly, clubs can place conditions on their competitions. Many of ours have a 24 limit. So, the gripe is really with your competition committee, not the handicap system.

The handicap system just caters for people who are worse at golf, and can have it represent their ability fairly. Some people, a 9 is a fair score on some holes. Maybe for a junior, maybe for an old senior or maybe for anyone else with significant limitations

 

[cliveb]

I think the 28 handicap limit worked well. The first aim of nearly every golfer once they have played a few rounds is to break 100. Getting a score over par of 26, 27, etc would usually achieve this. Rewarding scores of 125+ is just absurd and more importantly, it holds up so many other golfers in following groups. That for me if the key problem above all.

I think the key problem is the lack courses appropriate for beginners to learn the basics. When I was starting out back in the early 2000's, there were plenty of pay and play 9 hole par 3 courses. A few of them had few short par 4 holes for good measure. Nearly all of them seem to have closed down now.

 

[clubchamp98]

Happens all the time, especially in open scratch events. I've done it more than once (almost did it again a couple of weeks ago - and I wasn't even having a bad day really!).

75 is very much above average scoring for a scratch golfer on a course playing to an adjusted Course Rating of well over 74.

I've never understood why some clubs feel compelled to produce unnecessarily difficult course setups for these types of events.

The course wasn’t set up any differently.
It was the weather but I would expect elite golfers to handle that .

I have played with lots of very low men over a forty year period and have never seen one shoot 90+ ever.
I have no dought it happens but watching some of the players they were not the type of scratch player I remember from my younger days.
Far to many vanity handicaps imho.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

The course wasn’t set up any differently.
It was the weather but I would expect elite golfers to handle that .

I have played with lots of very low men over a forty year period and have never seen one shoot 90+ ever.
I have no dought it happens but watching some of the players they were not the type of scratch player I remember from my younger days.
Far to many vanity handicaps imho.

Surely depends on what you mean by elite

Is it just county players or the top am’s in the country

 

[howbow88]

Firstly, clubs can place conditions on their competitions. Many of ours have a 24 limit. So, the gripe is really with your competition committee, not the handicap system.

The handicap system just caters for people who are worse at golf, and can have it represent their ability fairly. Some people, a 9 is a fair score on some holes. Maybe for a junior, maybe for an old senior or maybe for anyone else with significant limitations

No. A 9 is ridiculous. I'll putt out for a 9 in a medal, where I don't really have a choice. Other than that, it shouldn't be done.* It certainly shouldn't ever come with a point in stableford.

*I understand if a hacker is on to a good round (eg breaking 100) but happens to have a couple of terrible holes and wants to keep their score.

 

[wjemather]

The course wasn’t set up any differently.
It was the weather but I would expect elite golfers to handle that .

I have played with lots of very low men over a forty year period and have never seen one shoot 90+ ever.
I have no dought it happens but watching some of the players they were not the type of scratch player I remember from my younger days.
Far to many vanity handicaps imho.

Fair play to the club if it was setup the same as for a midweek senior Stableford.

High scores happen in truly elite events, not just club scratch opens: Open qualifying, Brabazon qualifying, etc. - almost always see a few 90+ in them.

You're comparing apples and oranges as far as what level a scratch golfer is at now compared with 30+ years ago. These are not vanity handicaps (the vast majority aren't anyway) - equipment advances and handicapping changes (starting long before WHS) have simply made it much easier to get to scratch.

 

[The Squirrel]

Come on how many 1 handicappers shoot 90+ on a bad day?

A 75 is a bad day for a 1 handicapper.

PCC +3 was because the scores were shocking but I was there ,it was raining but not that bad in the morning but ok pm.
These scores are really poor.
The course was closed to everyone else so only the elite scores counted.

Nick Dunlap is WAAAAAAAAY better than a 1 capper (as a winning PGAT pro he’s probably close to 10 shots better if he was on a handicap rating?) and shot a 90 round Augusta just this year. The course in question may not be the same difficulty but just shows these scores can happen and should be expected. You also don’t know injury status. The idea that someone truly around scratch could not reasonably shoot a 90 just doesn’t make sense.

 

[clubchamp98]

Nick Dunlap is WAAAAAAAAY better than a 1 capper (as a winning PGAT pro he’s probably close to 10 shots better if he was on a handicap rating?) and shot a 90 round Augusta just this year. The course in question may not be the same difficulty but just shows these scores can happen and should be expected. You also don’t know injury status. The idea that someone truly around scratch could not reasonably shoot a 90 just doesn’t make sense.

They shot 38 over 36 holes.
He wasn’t the only one.

I think my course and Augusta is a bit of a stretch.


I’m not saying they can’t score that !
But I’m saying I know a scratch handicapper when I see one.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

They shot 38 over 36 holes.
He wasn’t the only one.

I think my course and Augusta is a bit of a stretch.


I’m not saying they can’t score that !
But I’m saying I know a scratch handicapper when I see one.

I have shot over 90 in a comp before - it happens

 

[wjemather]

They shot 38 over 36 holes.
He wasn’t the only one.

I think my course and Augusta is a bit of a stretch.

I’m not saying they can’t score that !
But I’m saying I know a scratch handicapper when I see one.

He seems to have done ok in most of the other scratch opens he's played this year and he's played quite a few (5 of his current 8 counting scores are from those events). His rounds at your place are his only Score Differentials over 9.0 in the last 3 years (>50 scores). Seems he did just have one of those days.

Many people's idea of scratch is closer to a top end tour professional than an actual scratch amateur.

 

[clubchamp98]

He seems to have done ok in most of the other scratch opens he's played this year and he's played quite a few (5 of his current 8 counting scores are from those events). His rounds at your place are his only Score Differentials over 9.0 in the last 3 years (>50 scores). Seems he did just have one of those days.

Many people's idea of scratch is closer to a top end tour professional than an actual scratch amateur.

I am surprised at that stat I watched him for a few holes and he looked like he had borrowed someone’s clubs that didn’t suit him.
So just a bad day !

I play with scratch golfers all the time and they do have bad days but never seen them shoot more than 9/10 over.
It happens I know!