it's the Emperor's new clothes!

I hope so Dave.
Looked to me like he was saying some pros dont know what they are talking about.
Anyone who wants to become a PGA Professional today needs to pass a foundation degree in golf covering 8 different modules, no easy task.
So when some person says pros dont know what they are talking about, I understandably get miffed :mad:
Why dont you leave the telecommunication business and try making a living running a pro-shop in today's economic climate. With competition from the high street shops and the internet, it's no easy living believe me. :( Rant over.
 
WOW, What a great thread!

Great OP, slightly aggresive but I like that and it's raised a great debate.

I understand the science in your statement however I'm happy living a lie on the golf course. I have CF G5's, and a CF driver however I honestly dont care what the shaft is made out of. I'm totally oblivious to shaft names, all i know is stiff/regular or steel and graphite.

My Nike 3-wood and rescue boast mitsubushi diamana shafts, I had no idea what that meant when i bought them and honestly didnt care, but they work like a dream (atleast they have for the last few weeks).

Also I think we should all support our club pro's but I dont think the OP was argueing against that fact anyway.
 
Minty and Dave are right! and that is one of the point's I am raising! If your club pro tries to sell you off the peg gear without looking at your requirements! formally loft, lie, club head speed, tempo and SW, then you need to look elsewhere for equipment advice.

The original post wasn't and still isn't an attack on club pro's in general! just bad ones!

The title of the post anticipated the knee jerk response that I knew some would give but it is reassuring to see that at least a few of us are still pointing and saying "He's in the NUDE!"

JollysH1
 
To be fair to a lot of club pro's, many only have a limited list of suppiers & manufatures ranges to choose from. so can only offer those clubs they have access to.

Its when many of us visit large golf hypermarket type of stores & an assistant tries to guide us towards certain things & fit us with what they make assumptions about without really trying to properly fit the player, when Ironically these store probably have access to more manufactures products & the use of dedicated electronic monitors.

The irony is, that many of us can use the information from these electonic swing monitors to make our own decissions about what clubs are going to be right, without the pidgeon holing some shop assistant or even those who should know better can make. Something that does wind me up somewhat.
 
Any golfer worth his salt knows that the iron lofts are changed and drivers lengthened to help the golfer. So what?
You're not telling us anything new.
All industries claim to have the biggest, best and fastest whatever. To assume the general public and people on this forum are stupid enough to believe all the advertising tosh is in my opinion somewhat patronising.

If someone goes to JJb and gets 'fitted' by someone whos is not qualified to do so then its their own fault.
Would you go to a trainee Dentist?
I live near an AG which has 2 qualified PGA pros on their staff. I have sent some golfers there to get some clubs fitted and they have come back with in my opinion the right clubs for their standard and set up.
I agree that the blurb is there to encourage you to buy their clubs, but at the end of the day, if the customer hits them well and is happy, has the pro not done his or her job?
Maybe in your day, the PGA training wasnt as intense as it is now, but let me assure you and any other interested party in this discussion that when you go to get custom fitted by a PGA Pro, you can feel safe in the knowledge you will be fitted by someone who is qualified to do so and in my opinion will try and give you the best club he or she can. It is after all, their business.
 
If someone goes to JJb and gets 'fitted' by someone whos is not qualified to do so then its their own fault.
Click to expand...

First time I've had an issue with your posts. Someone who is a regular here - maybe but I reckon it's assumed by most that shop assistants are trained to sell the goods they stock. There are a heck of a lot of golfers out there that have never heard of CF!
 
If someone goes to JJb and gets 'fitted' by someone whos is not qualified to do so then its their own fault.
Click to expand...

First time I've had an issue with your posts. Someone who is a regular here - maybe but I reckon it's assumed by most that shop assistants are trained to sell the goods they stock. There are a heck of a lot of golfers out there that have never heard of CF!
Click to expand...

Times I've been for custom fitting & turns out little if anything needs to be done... One of those happy few who can pick a set off the peg & be Okay, at least as far as shaft lengths & lie angles are concerned. Though differences can be noticed in how firm or not a regular off the peg shaft can feel, depending upon what the make & model may be.

When I got fitted for my Yonex Irons I had before my current Pings there was so little variation from standard lie needing to be done as to be pointless doing, only adjustment I had was as far as grips & extra wrap & a half.

For my Ping irons the Blue dot is equivelent to most every other manufactures setups & that's what I finally came out as.
 
A couple of points. I've been to several AG stores locally and hit balls on their launch monitors with the sales assistant supposedly trained and able to offer advice. They had no idea how to interpet the data other than one make went further or straighter than another.

We discussed the merits of so called trained staff a few months back and it was a common theme that JJB, AG etc do not always have employees with a good enough knowledge of the golf swing and their own products to offer a true custom fitting programme.

My other point relates to PGA training. Back in the 80's when I was an assistant the nearest most people got to a custom fit would be a hand made persimmon driver or at best stiff flex instead of regular. It wasn't really an option and as far as my failing memory recalls didn't fall into the module dealing with club repairs and equipment. Now it is a major component of that particular module and so if you go to a PGA professional they are able to offer a service that has involved good training. My club pro has just introduced the Tour Exotics custom fitting option and if he could fit my swing to a shaft spec and price match other brands I'd use him everytime.
 
Sam,

I recently visited my local World of Golf in Clydebank, just outside Glasgow. I asked the sales girl if they had any Bridgestone B330 Tour S balls left in stock. She didn;t even know what they were never mind where to check on the computer or stock room.

As for these places and especially AG and the like, I wouldn't waste my time never mind my money buying clubs from them. It's one thing knowing what a golf club is, but more importantly they have to know more than what one goes furthest.

As Bob states, it's not easy to become a PGA qualified Pro, but I bet you a few quid it's a doddle to get a job in AG, JJB or the like and sell golf gear even if you don't know the arse from elbow of a golf club.

Don't slag Bob or any of our Pro's. They have a hard time with these budget crowds as it is and could all do with our help by purchasing from them and trusting their well qualified advice.

Andy
 
Trust me as someone who has been on the inside of the AG ropes, their profit margins make very interesting reading and had they been able to match my commission expectations and moved a little on basic I might now be on the staff. That said I would have like to have thought I know enough about the game, swing and equipment that I could have offered customers what they wanted rather than pushing the four AG leader brands.
 
Any golfer worth his salt knows that the iron lofts are changed and drivers lengthened to help the golfer. So what?
Click to expand...

Sorry Bobmac but I fail to see how having a number 8 written on the sole of my 6 iron is an aid to my game?? the lofts were changed to fool golfers into thinking the irons they were thinking of buying went further than the ones they presently had! I though everyone worth their salt knew that! even club pro's!

JollysH1
 
I am not really sure what relevance all this loft crap coming from JH has.....I only have 13 clubs I can hit so it doesnt matter a toss what loft difference they have from any previous ones I may have had they are still going to get me to where want!
 
JH1 We're all playing from the same hymn sheet, its just the page numbers are different. We get your point. But we all know lofts have changed on the clubs over the years. But as Dodger points out we all have a limited amount of clubs in our bag. We simply pick out the one that gets us to where we want to be. It doesn't matter if it has an 8 or a 6 on it. Its the club for the shot in our bag.

I certainly noticed the difference when going from my Yonex irons to my Ping Irons, as Ping tend to use a slightly more classic lofting than a lot of modern clubs.

We all know its a mechandising ploy manufactures use by altering the loft on the irons which is a bit patronising to us all as players I think the likes of WilsonStaff are one of the worst offenders. We all know Todays Pitching Wedges are yester-years 9 irons & that our 3 iron is a 2 iron from years gone by.

Go into any shoee shop & you'll find todays size 8 in general is rarely a size 8 from years gone by. Same for any clothing. And its the same for Golf

Yes its wrong, but we all are aware of the mechandising ploy

JH1 you & Bob are agreeing in reality & yet you are still arguing, something I find mildly amusing.
 
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