it's the Emperor's new clothes!

[Dodger]

Just a wee question re the bit on the bottom of your profile JH....

LOL I love this bit where people write that they're playing with the wrong clubs

How do you know that folk you have never seen swing a club are playing with the wrong clubs?

 

[HTL]

I think the reason I posted it was to usher more people into the CF route, it certainly wasn't an attack on club professionals! "in fact completely the opposite!" but more aimed at the major sports retailers.

I think the vast majority of the forum is with you on this. I certainly am.

So what are you feelings on my potential club upgrades? I'm thinking of the Slazenger FAST irons and the K1 driver, they look ace in the adverts and will improve everyone's game!

 

[DCB]

Now, now !

if Sam Torrance says they're good then thats it, they must be !

 

[HTL]

Dont forget if Kenny Dalgleish (sp) thinks they are great they HAVE TO BE.

 

[Earl]

Hey Jolly is'nt it a friendly forum you post something informative then get ridiculed for it, keep it up guys. Then perhaps you can keep the forum all for yourselves instead of all these newbies joining in !

 

[Andy]

Keep taking the tablets.

And if you were damn good at it, what are you doing in Telecommunications now? You'd surely have work coming out your ears or maybe you were rank rotten?

Andy

People change direction in life for any number of reasons.

I think maybe this is being a bit too unfair, given that we don't know specifics.

Hacker

The point being if your damn good then you'd surely get satisfaction and enjoyment from that career and continue at it helping golfers who are willing to travel 100 miles for said help.

Thats why I asked the question.

Andy

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I have written on here on more than one occasion about AG and the fact that they are trained to push certain brands (Yonex, Nicklaus, Hogan and Wilson) which represent the largest mark-ups and the fact that the majority of their sales staff know how to use a launch monitor but have no idea how to translate the data into a useable piece of information to recommend the right club.

I've never bought anything at JJB and would rather take up a new sport than buy any golf related item there. I think they are glorified cash and carry's (pile it high and flog it cheap).

Like the OP I trained as an assistant pro but in my day there was no such thing as custom fitting for the ordinary golfer. Top players or those with some serious cash could invest in a hand made persimmon driver with maybe 3-5 shafts to choose from. My world revolved around re-whipping laminated woods, restaining and regripping.

We all know that a lot of the major companies (TM probably the first to cotton onto it) have de-lofted irons to make it look like you hit it further and until people stop buying into the longer = better philosophy it will continue to be a legitimate marketing ploy. I have bought off the shelf and been able to use them without too much trouble. My swing speed is fairly average (as confirmed by custom fitters at Cally and TM, my pro, and several reps from 5 of the largest retailers on demo days) I'm a standard height (6 foot) and not looking for a blade.

I enjoyed my TM R7's and they worked well for me stright from the shelf. Ironically when I swapped to a C/F set of Cally X20 I actually struggled more in terms of ball control and flight. I was fortunate to be offered a set of Tour Preferred Burners at a ridiculous price (£260) with a choice of shafts.

I think th OP does sound a little bitter and twisted about the whole subject but does raise a valid point. I'd always utilise my club pro where possible and look for the C/F option but don't think the golfing world will collapse because the majority of players don't play the right clubs. Many only play once a week for fun and money on top end kit is not an option so it is a case of finding the best fit in terms of money and playability

 

[Herbie]

I dont take as extreme a view as jollysheld but I tend to agree with a lot of it.

 

[GB72]

I am now a convert to using my club pro, happy to take any demo club out for a round or 2 to see if it suits then happy for me to walk away if he does not sell one I like.

 

[RGDave]

Hey Jolly isn't it a friendly forum; you post something informative then get ridiculed for it, keep it up guys. Then perhaps you can keep the forum all for yourselves instead of all these newbies joining in !

What's going on here then.

JH1 came on and posted an interesting but quirky post that had the feeling of a possibly unintentional sub-agenda, i.e. that most of us don't know anything about clubs and are gullible punters who waste money on clubs. Whatever the reason for his OP, I replied in a sensible manner (I think) and welcome his post and any comments from anyone, good or bad, sensible or plainly insane, from newbies and old-timers alike.

This forum seems perfectly able to welcome all-comers, and if there was anything up with this post, JH has said sorry and the matter should be closed.

Now you come on with a large dose of sarcasm
Whatever, I'm off this thread now, it's almost the most surreal thread subject since joining on here.....

 

[viscount17]

I actually know the specs of my irons - I looked them up and have a print out in my wallet; doesn't make an iota of difference of course as I'm not exactly consistent.

as to the rest, I think the first rule I learnt on this forum was 'don't buy what you haven't hit'. at least that way, nothing that's written on a club or shaft matters a damn.

 

[USER1999]

Strangly, I ama bit anal about this, and do know all my clubs specs. As a result the numbers do mean something, and on a good day, they all behave. On a bad day, the numbers mean nothing. As does my handicap, another meaningless number. That said, all my clubs (woods apart) have been loft / lie adjusted.

 

[Cernunnos]

JH1 may be somewhat cynical. Howeve,r I do think he is essentially correct. However, this doesn't exactly enamour people to custom fitting if all this is true.

I do think that yes flex in shafts especially graphite shafts, that the suposed stifnesses can be taken with a pinch of salt. And I know many of us are aware that most manufacturers have altered & massaged the lofts of the irons. Meaning a gap is then opened between Pitching wedges (that are now esentially an old 9 iron.) & the sand wedge. Mreaning we have had to start buying Gap wedges.

Bugger custom fitting, (though, how else are we going to try different options).I've been custom fitted before & never liked the Regular shafts that I've often been recommended to use. Though as often as not I've ended up going with what the custom fitter has suggested.

Most damaging to the wallet is going with what a club fitter is suggesting for drivers, when I really feel we should go with what our gut instinct tells us.

There again perhaps I'm being even more cynical about all this.

 

[JollysHeld1]

WOW I never realised that the post would cause such discussion!

Well I did really!! that's why I posted it! no point in posting something that doesn't raise debate!

Debate is something that betters us all, makes us more tolerant to others way of thinking and also strengthen's our future arguments on the same issue!

I like many have also taken a few clubs out on ranges or on courses to try! but think about the last time you did? ever make a slight alteration to stance or posture for the club your trying?...."This driver works great if I open my stance a little and weaken my grip?" that type of thing!

Nobody want's to hit a bad shot even in practice, so we automatically adapt to a piece of equipment even when we are testing it!.. this meakes the test completely worthless because once again we are swinging to fit the equipment and not the other way around!

Once again sorry to any that find this line of reasoning offensive? but think about it?

As for my Tag line!!

Well I'm a betting man and even though I don't know that any one individual has the wrong clubs or not? I'll play the percentages and beat 9 out of 10 each time! I appreciate the effort to get to 2.5 hcp and it's even harder if you have to step onto the 1st tee with 3 or 4 different swings! so I'd imagine your clubs are pretty clued up to you personally! and so all I can say is congratulations on being the 1 in the 10

JollysH1

 

[Cernunnos]

Debate is great. Though many points have been covered before. Though no reason we shouldn't visit those points again, from what ever viewpoint.

Interesting in the last paragraph about different swings for clubs in the bag. Though not really something I've considered I think I know at least partly where you're comming from though.

However, I'd curious to read an extrapolation & an expansion upon this part of the subject. ('sound of chair being pulled up')

btw I don't find any of this offensive, though provoking on one hand. Stationg the obvious on another, but nothing to need an opology in my book.

At the end of the day its each to their own as far as choosing clubs.I'm not a low handicap player, though I do know what I like & don't like & after a number of purchases over the last few years I know more than ever that I should listen to my own first impressions about any club I try.

 

[JollysHeld1]

Hey Cernunnos! nice to see some rational thought!

Sorry if these points have been raised before but as you can see from my profile I'm pretty new here! and so I might have missed some previously entered posts!

JollysH1

 

[Cernunnos]

There are a lot of posts with rational thought, though as oft the perspective can be slightly different.

Many of us will actually disagree on a lot of points, but actually agree in reality.

Again no real need to say sorry.

Enjoying the banter

 

[CrapHacker]

Keep taking the tablets.

And if you were damn good at it, what are you doing in Telecommunications now? You'd surely have work coming out your ears or maybe you were rank rotten?

Andy

People change direction in life for any number of reasons.

I think maybe this is being a bit too unfair, given that we don't know specifics.

Hacker

The point being if your damn good then you'd surely get satisfaction and enjoyment from that career and continue at it helping golfers who are willing to travel 100 miles for said help.

Thats why I asked the question.

Andy

Not saying I totally disagree with your thought process, but I thought the 'rank rotten' was verging on flaming, and there was a thread a week or two ago when the thread disappeared coz it got too intense and Mods etc got involved.

Just wanted to say something to help people sniff the old petunia oil, and chill man.

No offense meant to you, personally

Love and peace.

 

[bobmac]

The moral is don't get sucked in by your local club pro! saying "What you need is a 2 degree draw bias low flight high velocity launch head with a low kick point XX shaft"
it means nothing except that they don't know what they are talking about!!

JollysH1

You dont think that is an attack on club pros, you think in fact quite the opposite?
I know lots of pros who would like to discuss that with you.

Not a happy bunny

 

[Dave3498]

The moral is don't get sucked in by your local club pro! saying "What you need is a 2 degree draw bias low flight high velocity launch head with a low kick point XX shaft"
it means nothing except that they don't know what they are talking about!!

JollysH1

You dont think that is an attack on club pros, you think in fact quite the opposite?
I know lots of pros who would like to discuss that with you.

Not a happy bunny

I think you've missed the sublety of it Bobmac. JH1 is saying that if any club pro ever says things like that to you, go to another pro.