Israel Folau!?

SocketRocket said:
SILH gets a lot of stick for his beliefs. He doesn't seem to be trying to hoist them on others but is being challenged on why he should hold them. It seems he isnt allowed to apply his Christian views by some who have their own take on it but rather than ask pertinent questions prefer to rubbish him. He and I may have different views on many things but much of this seems like bullying mind games. Somehow I don't think there would be the same degree of attack if someone had Islamic religious views.
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Please don’t project your views on how Muslims might react to having their religion questioned on us. I wonder if you read too much Daily Mail.
 
Kellfire said:
We tell you what you should believe because we have the separation that allows us to read the Bible objectively and see that it utterly disproves itself over and over again.

Believers have to make countless concessions and excuses to make the Bible even slightly relevant or believable.
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A bit like a political manifesto then
Of whatever colour you veer towards
 
Kellfire said:
Please don’t project your views on how Muslims might react to having their religion questioned on us. I wonder if you read too much Daily Mail.
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I wonder if Charlie Hebdo read the Daily Mail! You can't even be satirical it seems. Oh and I nearly forgot about the death threats a certain Salman Rushdie got for his novel that was critically acclaimed by some!
 
Kellfire said:
Please don’t project your views on how Muslims might react to having their religion questioned on us. I wonder if you read too much Daily Mail.
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But in saying that... are you not projecting YOUR views on how Muslims might react to having their religion questioned etc etc.

So you are the same as Socket.... who’d have thought it possible 👍
 
Kellfire said:
We tell you what you should believe because we have the separation that allows us to read the Bible objectively and see that it utterly disproves itself over and over again.

Believers have to make countless concessions and excuses to make the Bible even slightly relevant or believable.
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How many "we" have read the bible cover to cover, and how many that have done so have analysed whats in it?

Science says that everything began with the Big Bang, or to be more accurate(theory) there was a high density coming together which led to the Big Bang. But current knowledge doesn't know if it was primordial. It doesn't know what caused it. Scientists talk about extrapolating things back, based on current physics laws, to determine how things began but can't get past the Bang bit. It requires, dare I say, a leap of faith in the scientific laws science wishes to apply. A leap of faith... now there's a thought - a need to believe something that currently can't be proven, only modelled on an educated guess.

Didn't ancient scientists believe the earth was flat, once upon a time... were their thoughts modelled on an educated guess of that time, and since disproven?

I believe most of the science going right back to that Bang, but not all. And the not all bit isn't based on what I can prove or disprove, its based on people/scientists have been proven wrong before.

Is there a god, a group of gods, a race of superior beings that had a kitchen experiment go Bang? My belief is there is something that isn't still fully explained either way. But what do you label it? For me, there's a god. Not sure which one, how many heads or arms or whether it floats on a cloud but I believe something kicked-off this great big sleigh ride.

But what of the bible? Is it a group of fairy stories, myths and legends? Maybe it is. And maybe there's a kernel of something in there. What of Jesus' teachings? Of love for your fellow man? I think there's elements of it that are a code of conduct. Nelson Mandela and Gandhi each energised a nation, and did so in a time that relative to 2000 years ago had fantastic communication. How on earth did the bible energise a continent 2000 years ago? But equally, why didn't it spread further east or west?

I don't deny anyone their beliefs, whether there's a god or otherwise. Nor will I decry them or their intelligence in whatever they believe in or don't believe in. I believe there's a 'god.' And if you don't, fine. You can think me delusional or cracked, ignorant and stupid. That's fine too. Dance round me banging a big drum if it makes you feel better... apart from the noise, which might be a little irritating, I don't care that you think differently, thats your choice.

I'm happy in my little delusional world. Isn't that what life's goal is about, being happy?
 
SocketRocket said:
SILH gets a lot of stick for his beliefs. He doesn't seem to be trying to hoist them on others but is being challenged on why he should hold them. It seems he isnt allowed to apply his Christian views by some who have their own take on it but rather than ask pertinent questions prefer to rubbish him. He and I may have different views on many things but much of this seems like bullying mind games. Somehow I don't think there would be the same degree of attack if someone had Islamic religious views.
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This ^^^^^^^. And the following only uses SILH as an example, since he shows confidence enough to air his views.

SILH has his belief, and I have mine. They dont match. SILH cant prove that the God in whom he believes exists. On the other hand, l can't proof he doesn't. That SILH has faith in the God in whom he believes is enough for him. My belief is enough for me. There is no need for us to resent or argue our difference.

The only time one gets problems, is when bigotry and intolerance are propounded, and pepetuated under the guise of religious belief. Which is a different thing altogether.
 
PhilTheFragger said:
But in saying that... are you not projecting YOUR views on how Muslims might react to having their religion questioned etc etc.

So you are the same as Socket.... who’d have thought it possible 👍
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Thats a bit of a poor comment Phil. Take a virtual infraction.
 
backwoodsman said:
This ^^^^^^^. And the following only uses SILH as an example, since he shows confidence enough to air his views.

SILH has his belief, and I have mine. They dont match. SILH cant prove that the God in whom he believes exists. On the other hand, l can't proof he doesn't. That SILH has faith in the God in whom he believes is enough for him. My belief is enough for me. There is no need for us to resent or argue our difference.

The only time one gets problems, is when bigotry and intolerance are propounded, and pepetuated under the guise of religious belief. Which is a different thing altogether.
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And so as a Glaswegian lad growing up in the Glasgow of the 1960s - what football team should I support?

Well, having Highland/Hebridean parents with no family affiliation whatsoever to either of the OF, my brother and I were discouraged from supporting either because of their religious associations - associations that my parents found...I don't quite know which word or phrase to use...but they didn't want us to have anything to do with the OF and the religious bigotry of many supporters - that bigotry and intolerance being totally at odds with their own upbringing and values; that they found totally unacceptable, and that poisoned much about Glasgow of these times.

And so I ended up supporting St Johnstone (my mum's team) ... and in Glasgow of the late 1960s to mid-1970s that was quite challenging - maybe being a bigot would have been easier ;)

Aside - As it happens my brother found himself supporting Celtic as he decided that the Celtic of 1967 and 1969 were brilliant - as they were - and that he wanted to support a team that won things - unlike the team of his big brother... That support lasted to a Celtic vs Rangers New Year game - I think it was the one of Mark Walters infamy - 2nd January 1988 - but have a feeling it might have been a few years earlier. Both he and I were in the Celtic End of Parkhead (obviously) - and at half time he said to me 'I've had enough...I can't stand this (bigotry) - let's see if we can move to the Rangers End' We went to the front of the terracing and asked the polis if we could move They looked at us unsure and my brother explained why - taking off his Celtic scarf. and hiding it away. And we walked along the running track in front of the main stand to the Rangers End.

He is now a Rangers season ticket holder - as is my niece. But they are actually pretty sensible :) and eschew and condemn the bigotry that still exists at Ibrox - though these days at a much, much lower level. I forgive them ;)
 
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backwoodsman said:
This ^^^^^^^. And the following only uses SILH as an example, since he shows confidence enough to air his views.

SILH has his belief, and I have mine. They dont match. SILH cant prove that the God in whom he believes exists. On the other hand, l can't proof he doesn't. That SILH has faith in the God in whom he believes is enough for him. My belief is enough for me. There is no need for us to resent or argue our difference.

The only time one gets problems, is when bigotry and intolerance are propounded, and pepetuated under the guise of religious belief. Which is a different thing altogether.
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That's right. A friend I played golf with let it out one day that he was religious. We had many a discussion over coffee about his belief versus my non belief. We both enjoyed it.
He was a very honourable man. You could have trusted him to always be straight.
Then he told me one day he was terminally ill. It wasn't until after he died that I found out he was the Elder or leader ( whatever the term is ) of a local Baptist church.
During our discussions, he had a laugh when I said, " You know John , what's not fair about your position? If you're right that there is an afterlife, you'll be able to say I told you so. If I'm right, I won't "😀

I do miss our golf and time together.
 
While people are free to believe in what they like in a democratic country, it's still reasonable to ask theists questions like:

1. If there's a God, then where is He?
2. If there's a Heaven and Hell, then where are they?
3. Is the Earth flat?
4. Is the Earth 6000 years old?
5. Are we all tainted with original sin?
6. Has Evolution taken place on this planet?

Answers usually given by theists to the above, with some further questions:

1. 'God is everywhere, both up there and down here.'
But does that include all of empty space and inside every atom?
2. 'Ask a question like that and you are bound for Hell.'
3. 'No, the Earth is round.'
But that is not supported by the Bible which talks of the 4 corners of the Earth.
It was also supposed that the Earth had Heaven above and Hell below, a sort of 3 layered structure.
4. 'The generations going back to Adam imply that'.
Then when did the age of Agriculture start?
5. 'That is what the Bible says.'
Then how did God know I was coming?
6. 'No, God created all humans and other life.'
Only the RC Church want to modify this by saying that evolution is directed by God.
That's because they've had such a bloody nose from science in the past.
 
stefanovic said:
While people are free to believe in what they like in a democratic country, it's still reasonable to ask theists questions like:

1. If there's a God, then where is He?
2. If there's a Heaven and Hell, then where are they?
3. Is the Earth flat?
4. Is the Earth 6000 years old?
5. Are we all tainted with original sin?
6. Has Evolution taken place on this planet?

Answers usually given by theists to the above, with some further questions:

1. 'God is everywhere, both up there and down here.'
But does that include all of empty space and inside every atom?
2. 'Ask a question like that and you are bound for Hell.'
3. 'No, the Earth is round.'
But that is not supported by the Bible which talks of the 4 corners of the Earth.
It was also supposed that the Earth had Heaven above and Hell below, a sort of 3 layered structure.
4. 'The generations going back to Adam imply that'.
Then when did the age of Agriculture start?
5. 'That is what the Bible says.'
Then how did God know I was coming?
6. 'No, God created all humans and other life.'
Only the RC Church want to modify this by saying that evolution is directed by God.
That's because they've had such a bloody nose from science in the past.
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He’s towing a caravan on the M6 and when he’s not there, he’s out for a run.(y)
 
pauldj42 said:
He’s towing a caravan on the M6 and when he’s not there, he’s out for a run.(y)
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Sounds more like the Devil.

Richard Dawkins on theism (from Science in the Soul).
"Religious beliefs are irrational. Religious beliefs are dumb and dumber: superdumb. Religion drives otherwise sensible people into celibate monasteries or crashing into New York skyscrapers. Religion motivates people to whip their own backs, to set fire to themselves or their daughters, to denounce their own grandmothers as witches, or, in less extreme cases simply to stand or kneel, week after week, through ceremonies of stupefying boredom."
 
stefanovic said:
Sounds more like the Devil.

Richard Dawkins on theism (from Science in the Soul).
"Religious beliefs are irrational. Religious beliefs are dumb and dumber: superdumb. Religion drives otherwise sensible people into celibate monasteries or crashing into New York skyscrapers. Religion motivates people to whip their own backs, to set fire to themselves or their daughters, to denounce their own grandmothers as witches, or, in less extreme cases simply to stand or kneel, week after week, through ceremonies of stupefying boredom."
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All those things are due to people and the way they choose to live their lives, nothing to do with the fundamentals of their religion.
 
stefanovic said:
Sounds more like the Devil.

Richard Dawkins on theism (from Science in the Soul).
"Religious beliefs are irrational. Religious beliefs are dumb and dumber: superdumb. Religion drives otherwise sensible people into celibate monasteries or crashing into New York skyscrapers. Religion motivates people to whip their own backs, to set fire to themselves or their daughters, to denounce their own grandmothers as witches, or, in less extreme cases simply to stand or kneel, week after week, through ceremonies of stupefying boredom."
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Unless of course this was a lie, all perpetrated by the US Government as an excuse to go to war.
So if Dawkins has that wrong, maybe he’s wrong about everything!:unsure:
 
stefanovic said:
Sounds more like the Devil.

Richard Dawkins on theism (from Science in the Soul).
"Religious beliefs are irrational. Religious beliefs are dumb and dumber: superdumb. Religion drives otherwise sensible people into celibate monasteries or crashing into New York skyscrapers. Religion motivates people to whip their own backs, to set fire to themselves or their daughters, to denounce their own grandmothers as witches, or, in less extreme cases simply to stand or kneel, week after week, through ceremonies of stupefying boredom."
Click to expand...

Gosh - I've been wondering what has been missing from my life...;)
 
stefanovic said:
While people are free to believe in what they like in a democratic country, it's still reasonable to ask theists questions like:

1. If there's a God, then where is He?
2. If there's a Heaven and Hell, then where are they?
3. Is the Earth flat?
4. Is the Earth 6000 years old?
5. Are we all tainted with original sin?
6. Has Evolution taken place on this planet?

Answers usually given by theists to the above, with some further questions:

1. 'God is everywhere, both up there and down here.'
But does that include all of empty space and inside every atom?
2. 'Ask a question like that and you are bound for Hell.'
3. 'No, the Earth is round.'
But that is not supported by the Bible which talks of the 4 corners of the Earth.
It was also supposed that the Earth had Heaven above and Hell below, a sort of 3 layered structure.
4. 'The generations going back to Adam imply that'.
Then when did the age of Agriculture start?
5. 'That is what the Bible says.'
Then how did God know I was coming?
6. 'No, God created all humans and other life.'
Only the RC Church want to modify this by saying that evolution is directed by God.
That's because they've had such a bloody nose from science in the past.
Click to expand...
42
 
While people are free to believe in what they like in a democratic country, it's still reasonable to ask theists questions like:

1. If there's a God, then where is He? Rumour has it he winters in St Moritz
2. If there's a Heaven and Hell, then where are they? Heaven is an easy one; where the mistress is. Hell; where the wife is.
3. Is the Earth flat? Must be. If you put a ball on the ground it doesn't roll away.
4. Is the Earth 6000 years old? Yes, although I don't remember getting an invite to the party.
5. Are we all tainted with original sin? I do remember having the odd Golden Delicious.
6. Has Evolution taken place on this planet? Great film, and if there's photographic evidence it must have happened.
 
stefanovic said:
Sounds more like the Devil.

Richard Dawkins on theism (from Science in the Soul).
"Religious beliefs are irrational. Religious beliefs are dumb and dumber: superdumb. Religion drives otherwise sensible people into celibate monasteries or crashing into New York skyscrapers. Religion motivates people to whip their own backs, to set fire to themselves or their daughters, to denounce their own grandmothers as witches, or, in less extreme cases simply to stand or kneel, week after week, through ceremonies of stupefying boredom."
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And precisely how has Richard Dawkins actually proved the non-existence of a God or Gods? Personally, I believe that Oolon Colluphid made a better job of doing it than did/does Dawkins.
 
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