Israel Folau!?

Pathetic Shark said:
Is he the brother of Peter "Bonkers" Hitchens? The only person who could rival that stupid woman from the Apprentice in terms of columns for the Daily Mail.
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Yes, it is. Or was, unfortunately, as he passed away some years ago.
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
Not true for all denominations. Though if you don't believe in Hell I wouldn't be too bothered. Again this idea is based upon a literal reading of selected passages from the Bible without any consideration of what the writer was actually getting at in the context of the days it was written.
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You are cherry picking.
Whenever logic proves part of the Bible wrong, that part is then declared " not literal"
I expect you sing " All things bright and beautiful....etc"
And then some awkward person mentions disease in all it's awful forms.
 
Swinglowandslow said:
Whenever logic proves part of the Bible wrong, that part is then declared " not literal"
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Or it's declared 'allegorical' or a 'parable' when you point out something unlikely.
So Adam and Eve, The Fall of Man, Noah's Ark, virgin births, miracles, the dead rising etc. are historical events to some but allegorical to others.

There's no doubt that all religions work off the idea of the supernatural, when there is no such thing. Only a natural explanation for everything.
In the absence of any evidence, they also work off the invention of faith.

One thing religions have in common is that they are after power and your money.
 
stefanovic said:
Or it's declared 'allegorical' or a 'parable' when you point out something unlikely.
So Adam and Eve, The Fall of Man, Noah's Ark, virgin births, miracles, the dead rising etc. are historical events to some but allegorical to others.

There's no doubt that all religions work off the idea of the supernatural, when there is no such thing. Only a natural explanation for everything.
In the absence of any evidence, they also work off the invention of faith.

One thing religions have in common is that they are after power and your money.
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I'm thinking that you might not appreciate the differences between the many and various Christian denominations; why the different denominations exist; and how they differ in respect of how the Bible is interpreted and how what we can take from it may be used in a present day context. So for instance your final statement bears absolutely no relevance in the context of my denomination - so from where I stand your statement is simply not true. But I accept that it is what many believe.

BTW - in respect of religion; the supernatural and a natural explanation for everything - I'm thinking then that you don't believe any any form of spirituality or spiritual believe.
 
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SwingsitlikeHogan said:
I'm thinking that you might not appreciate the differences between the many and various Christian denominations; why the different denominations exist; and how they differ in respect of how the Bible is interpreted and how what we can take from it may be used in a present day context. So for instance your final statement bears absolutely no relevance in the context of my denomination - so from where I stand your statement is simply not true. But I accept that it is what many believe.

BTW - in respect of religion; the supernatural and a natural explanation for everything - I'm thinking then that you don't believe any any form of spirituality or spiritual believe.
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How a work of FICTION is interpreted!!!!:rolleyes:o_O
 
Scrotie McBoogerballs said:
How a work of FICTION is interpreted!!!!:rolleyes:o_O
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It is not a single work - it is a canon - a collection of books. Some of the books can be grouped together - the most known groupings being Old and New Testaments and then within the New Testament - the Gospels. But the groups are very different and some books do not fit into any group - though all having a common objective - that of trying to help the reader reach an understanding of the will of the God of their understanding.

You, as many do, will call them works of Fiction - and unless you are of those who believe that every word of the Bible is the absolute truth no questions asked (I don't) then they can be viewed as a fictional story (though worth remembering that as a collection they don't actually set out to tell a 'story' as such). However many others read them, alone or in a group, under the guidance of the Holy Spirit to help try and understand how best to live their life; what is expected of them in life, and to know the right thing to do in any situation rather than what self-will might determine.

In that context the books of the Bible could in some ways be considered a 'guru'-guided group/self-help well-being manual - just one of many such spirituality-based well-being manuals out there :)

Well that's how I read it/them.
 
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SwingsitlikeHogan said:
I'm thinking that you might not appreciate the differences between the many and various Christian denominations; why the different denominations exist; and how they differ in respect of how the Bible is interpreted and how what we can take from it may be used in a present day context.
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Catholic Church - Works off the idea that bread and wine is transformed into body and blood. If that were true then cannibalism still exists.
Protestant denominations - Not believing in the above has led to some of the most bloody wars in history.
They work off more fundamentalist ideas while cherry-picking the Bible to suit themselves.
Evangelists - Have a literal interpretation of the Bible, including fables like Noah's Ark where animals from all over the world made their own way to the boat.
God having drowned all other human and animal life did it out of love.
They also believe the world is 6000 years old, which is more recent than even the age of agriculture.
Fringe churches (too many to name) - Make up their own twisted interpretations which are rejected by all the rest.

As for the rugby player, he like so many others is a victim of the replicating virus of faith.
The Bible should come with a warning: "This book contains a virus."

BTW - in respect of religion; the supernatural and a natural explanation for everything - I'm thinking then that you don't believe any form of spirituality or spiritual believe.
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I think it's better to find comfort in trying to understand the nature of reality. The Bible is fiction. So are all the other scriptures from the golden age of myth and fable.
 
Your cherry picking is my trying to understand in the context what was and was is of today.

I don't disagree with much of what you say - but do disagree that you can simply generalise - as you seem to dismiss any form of spiritual belief or contemplation - or indeed any concept of a 'higher power'. Many agnostics and atheists will disagree with you.
 
stefanovic said:
Christianity is the worst possible religion. It works off the principle that if you do not believe in JC you'll burn in Hell.

15% of Americans believe that global warming is God's will, because God controls the climate. So bush fires are the will of God.
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why would you burn in hell if you don't believe in Jeremy Corbyn??

any if thats true then there are few on here destined for trouble:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
I don't disagree with much of what you say - but do disagree that you can simply generalise - as you seem to dismiss any form of spiritual belief or contemplation
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Do you mean a belief in the spirit world?

or indeed any concept of a 'higher power'. Many agnostics and atheists will disagree with you.
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When Christians try to back foot me by asking why there is something rather than nothing, I reply by asking what created the higher power.

The Bible tells us that God created all in one week (creation week), and you are free to believe that.
I prefer the scientific answers. They cannot both be true.

Bible: Early in creation week God created the sun, moon and stars.
Science: The theory of Big Bang Cosmology is the most reliable explanation based on observation we have.

Bible: Later in creation week God created Man and all creatures.
Science: The theory of Evolution by natural selection over a very long period of time explains why there are so many life forms on Earth.
 
stefanovic said:
Do you mean a belief in the spirit world?


When Christians try to back foot me by asking why there is something rather than nothing, I reply by asking what created the higher power.

The Bible tells us that God created all in one week (creation week), and you are free to believe that.
I prefer the scientific answers. They cannot both be true.

Bible: Early in creation week God created the sun, moon and stars.
Science: The theory of Big Bang Cosmology is the most reliable explanation based on observation we have.

Bible: Later in creation week God created Man and all creatures.
Science: The theory of Evolution by natural selection over a very long period of time explains why there are so many life forms on Earth.
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That is the literal reading of it. Is it what I believe. No.

I am quite happy with my own reading and understanding of the Book of Genesis.

I love it when folks with no religious belief tell me what I should believe :)
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
My CoS minister must have been very enlightened - as I don't ever recall as a schoolboy having any such feelings. Mind you he was a regular contributor to Late Call and was, in fact, rather jolly.

There's the land, which he called...the land; there's the sea - which he called...the sea, and there's the bit in between that he called...Ardrossan :)

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Brilliant series, especially if you're Scottish and can understand some of it :D. But he would probably would have been stoned to death in certain countries, or at least had a Fatwa [ contract ] put on him :ROFLMAO:.

SwingsitlikeHogan said:
My CoS minister must have been very enlightened - as I don't ever recall as a schoolboy having any such feelings. Mind you he was a regular contributor to Late Call and was, in fact, rather jolly.

There's the land, which he called...the land; there's the sea - which he called...the sea, and there's the bit in between that he called...Ardrossan :)

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SwingsitlikeHogan said:
It is not a single work - it is a canon - a collection of books. Some of the books can be grouped together - the most known groupings being Old and New Testaments and then within the New Testament - the Gospels. But the groups are very different and some books do not fit into any group - though all having a common objective - that of trying to help the reader reach an understanding of the will of the God of their understanding.

You, as many do, will call them works of Fiction - and unless you are of those who believe that every word of the Bible is the absolute truth no questions asked (I don't) then they can be viewed as a fictional story (though worth remembering that as a collection they don't actually set out to tell a 'story' as such). However many others read them, alone or in a group, under the guidance of the Holy Spirit to help try and understand how best to live their life; what is expected of them in life, and to know the right thing to do in any situation rather than what self-will might determine.

In that context the books of the Bible could in some ways be considered a 'guru'-guided group/self-help well-being manual - just one of many such spirituality-based well-being manuals out there :)

Well that's how I read it/them.
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Yet more fiction.:rolleyes:o_O:eek:
 
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