Israel Folau!?

SwingsitlikeHogan said:
...I don't have to justify any beliefs or faith that I might hold; why I have a faith, and how I might use it.
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Not sure why would you not want to talk about your understanding of Genesis?
If I refer to the two conflicting creation myths in Genesis, I'm usually told that both are true. Then the subject is changed.
It is not easy to separate fact from fiction, especially if promoted by religion and it has been argued that most of our mind does not even realise that fiction is fiction.
Logic does not support any stories found in the Bible. They are at best hearsay or hearsay based on hearsay, like Chinese whispers.
We do not have any original manuscripts, only copies of copies which were most likely redacted by scribes unknown. Then there are translations of translations.
There are so many creation myths from antiquity and those in the Hebrew Bible are just one version.
We are all atheists. I am atheist to every god. Christians are atheist to just one less god.
 
stefanovic said:
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Faith... It is this very thing that has led to wars though the centuries and the deaths of about 100 million.
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Wrong!

Greed (active or counteractive) has been, and will always be, the cause of that!
stefanovic said:
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Logic does not support any stories found in the Bible.
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There are many 'stories' in the Bible that are entirely 'logical'. There are also many that are unbelievable - at least by me.

As for faith..We all have some sort of faith, even it's the atheistic faith you have!

And to get back to the original topic. I believe Folau is simply wrong!
 
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Foxholer said:
Wrong!

Greed (active or counteractive) has been, and will always be, the cause of that!

There are many 'stories' in the Bible that are entirely 'logical'. There are also many that are unbelievable - at least by me.

As for faith..We all have some sort of faith, even it's the atheistic faith you have!

And to get back to the orignial topic. I believe Folau is simply wrong!
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Wrong and unfortunately mistaken
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
Wrong and unfortunately mistaken
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H'mm. I'm puzzled why you differentiate. Can you elucidate? Though if you stated '.., unfortunately, mistaken and wrong' it would have made more sense - an example of how the same words can be interpreted rather differently and showing the power/danger of preaching!

And, FWIW, one of my most enduring (and endearing) memories of my Dad is the anger whenever Rev. Ian Paisley was shown spouting his bilious rhetoric during 'the troubles'! Looking back, our family was brought up in the presbytarian (small 'P') 'Church'! as per my Grandmother's West Calder 'Free Kirk' upbringing - where 'The Church' was/is the sum of individual thinking/beliefs as opposed to specific doctrines/imposed attitudes/rituals.
 
Foxholer said:
H'mm. I'm puzzled why you differentiate. Can you elucidate? Though if you stated '.., unfortunately, mistaken and wrong' it would have made more sense - an example of how the same words can be interpreted rather differently and showing the power/danger of preaching!

And, FWIW, one of my most enduring (and endearing) memories of my Dad is the anger whenever Rev. Ian Paisley was shown spouting his bilious rhetoric during 'the troubles'! Looking back, our family was brought up in the presbytarian (small 'P') 'Church'! as per my Grandmother's West Calder 'Free Kirk' upbringing - where 'The Church' was/is the sum of individual thinking/beliefs as opposed to specific doctrines/imposed attitudes/rituals.
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You are right - not really getting across what I meant - which I suppose is something like he wrong in saying what he said and as far as I am concerned mistaken in his literal take of what he read that led to him saying it. It's unfortunate to me that some denominations read things literally and then express views based upon a literal reading - and it seems that all denominations get tarred with that same brush. But I get it's marginal to differentiate - I wasn't actually arguing against what you posted.
 
Jensen said:
It's amazing at times when non believers pray and turn to God in their hour of need 🤔
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As in 'There are no atheists in foxholes'. Or on sinking ships or planes about to crash.

A notable exception was Joe Simpson, when abandoned at the bottom of a glacier.
"I'd long since stopped believing in God. I always wondered if things really hit the fan, whether I would, under pressure, turn round and say a few Hail Marys and say 'Get me out of here'. It never once occurred to me. It meant that I really don't believe and I really do think that when you die, you die, that's it, there's no afterlife."

He survived by working out his way of escape.
 
Foxholer said:
There are many 'stories' in the Bible that are entirely 'logical'. There are also many that are unbelievable - at least by me.
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Ah, good. Let's hear about the logical stories.

As for faith..We all have some sort of faith, even it's the atheistic faith you have!
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Atheism is not a faith. It is the absence of faith. That's why it starts with the letter 'a'.

People of faith do have beliefs I regard as mad, and they are not always Evangelists.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...an-says-northern-ireland-priest-10061463.html
So yoga is the work of the Devil. Pity really, because I quite like a few yoga balances and stretches.

I believe that everything has a natural cause. Theists believe in the supernatural. If you can prove the supernatural you could earn a lot of money, as was the case with the James Randi $1 million challenge which nobody could claim.
I am impressed by what science has revealed, as opposed what religion has revealed, which is nothing.
 
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stefanovic said:
As in 'There are no atheists in foxholes'. Or on sinking ships or planes about to crash.

A notable exception was Joe Simpson, when abandoned at the bottom of a glacier.
"I'd long since stopped believing in God. I always wondered if things really hit the fan, whether I would, under pressure, turn round and say a few Hail Marys and say 'Get me out of here'. It never once occurred to me. It meant that I really don't believe and I really do think that when you die, you die, that's it, there's no afterlife."

He survived by working out his way of escape.
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God saved him anyway?
 
stefanovic said:
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Atheism is not a faith. It is the absence of faith.
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Twaddle!

Athiesm is the 'absence of belief in deities'. 'Faith' is a completely different concept, that may(not) relate to such beliefs!

I have 'faith' that I'm going to be able to play golf tomorrow! That involves my belief/expectation that a number of completely non-religious events/skills will occur/work!

Theists have faith in the existence of (their) god. You,presumably, have faith that gods don't exist!
 
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