Is the arc of the swing like a swinging door?

[Alex1975]

Bob i think that you have asked the question that i want the answer to but i wasnt really sure how to ask it....

For ages iv been reading my divots to see how my swing path is coming along....This post about the swinging door seems to make perfect sense to my swing path......My divots at times can be very prominent crescent shaped.....



This would make sense to your theory...But then there are times when they are straight...........Go figure!

Must be down to your wrists them isn't it? I used to get those crescent diverts, are you flicking at the ball at all? I like my divot to face right.

 

[kid2]

Must be down to your wrists them isn't it? I used to get those crescent diverts, are you flicking at the ball at all? I like my divot to face right.

Not sure pal.....I must stay switched on the next time that i get one and remember what direction the ball went.....Im staying patient for now as i was smacking it nicely this morning....Driver is still in the naughty corner though!

 

[SocketRocket]

The simple answer is 'No'

The path of the club head moves in 3D space and has a moving pivot that it simultaneously rotates, rises and falls on. It's not even an ellipse, which is a true conical section. It changes geometry in a complex multiaxis manner which does not follow any set geometrical pattern.

Simple really.

 

[Scottjd1]

The simple answer is 'No'

The path of the club head moves in 3D space and has a moving pivot that it simultaneously rotates, rises and falls on. It's not even an ellipse, which is a true conical section. It changes geometry in a complex multiaxis manner which does not follow any set geometrical pattern.

Simple really.

Simple..makes perfect sense....

 

[North Mimms]

my swing is more like this

 

[sev112]

The simple answer is 'No'

The path of the club head moves in 3D space and has a moving pivot that it simultaneously rotates, rises and falls on. It's not even an ellipse, which is a true conical section. It changes geometry in a complex multiaxis manner which does not follow any set geometrical pattern.

Simple really.

Is the correct answer
Which is why no picture / figure in a 2d page can ever describe a 4d event (i.e.3d plus time)

Not even worth pursuing, unless you are a PGA pro looking for a load of gullible people to flog a "magic move" swing theory to

Or unless you are a PGA pro looking for a simple bit of geometry that you can represent with a bit of balsa wood and charge £20 for

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I've more than enough to worry about as it is. I'll just stand there with my wonky swing and someone else can look at it and try and answer the question Bob. I've no idea

 

[JustOne]

The reason I say this image has ruined so many swings is at least twofold:

Firstly that people relate that image to the clubhead swinging waaaaaaay too far to the inside, I know it's only a representation of the arc and not reality but observers don't seem to know that and start swinging the clubhead around too deep.

Secondly is that people see that image and then assume the clubhead passes the hands and that they remain in a static position.... causing them to be 'flippers' of the clubhead. It 'places' the ball in the middle of the stance and the hands/clubshaft straight.

If I could draw a 'swing pic' it would be something along the lines of....
[click to enlarge]



which is admittedly pretty useless if you need to go into any detail :rofl:LOLOLOL

 

[chrisd]

I may be talking nonsense but don't the arms have a big part to play in this. During the backswing my left arm stays fairly straight, but not rigid, so the club, I assume, will move more on an inside track on the backswing. On the downswing the clubface is square at impact (hopefully) but then, up to say a foot after impact, my arms are fully straightening before the left arm starts to fold. Wouldnt the straightening through the hitting zone give a (short) period where the clubhead is perfectly square through the strike, something like in Bob's picture?

 

[bobmac]

I wish I hadn't drawn the sodden pictures now lol
What I was getting at was the golfer swing back, stays centred, swings down then as the club approaches the ball, the body moves laterally towards the target.
If the body didnt move forward, the swing would just be just an arc that touched the ball to target line once.
But with the centre of the swing moving towards the target, would that not create a different shaped arc ?
It would explain why people who hook the ball have problems. They fear the hook, stop turning, the hands flip over and snap hook all day.

 

[JustOne]

I wish I hadn't drawn the sodden pictures now lol

LOL

It would explain why people who hook the ball have problems. They fear the hook, stop turning, the hands flip over and snap hook all day.

I'm not sure if it would have anything to do with a flat spot, more like they envisage an angle of 'inside out' in their mind and then proceed to take the club back waaaayyy too much to the inside, on the downswing they either haven't recovered that poor club position and get stuck OR have chucked the club over the top too much.

As I posted in a previous thread, if you imagine a small child standing next to Luke Donald's right leg (no taller than his hip) then he could make his entire swing without even endangering the childs health via decapitation... watch the path of the club.....

[video=youtube;08rpqW2Z9Vw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08rpqW2Z9Vw[/video]

or Rory's.... (because everyone loves his swing......)

[video=youtube;hh1-BX8LFWU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hh1-BX8LFWU[/video]

There are people that swing flatter (eg: Casey, Kuchar, Simpson) but as a rule not many swing 'around themselves' as much as your average club golfer, they also know how to recover the position correctly :thup:

 

[JustOne]

If the body didnt move forward, the swing would just be just an arc that touched the ball to target line once.

It does only touch the target line once...... (well twice if you include swinging so far out that it has to swing back across it as you take the club around to a finish position ).

 

[bobmac]

I'm not sure if it would have anything to do with a flat spot,

That's the whole point.
They DONT have the flat spot.
Forgetting swing paths/planes on the backswing or downswing for a second...
The point of the thread was to try and emphasise the importance of the weight shifting into the left side.
If the weight stays on the back foot like a huge amount of golfers do, the club flips round to the left through impact giving either the snap hook or the carve right (depending on the c/face).
So for example, with Gibbo's swing, he needs to get forward off his back leg which will increase his distance, improve his contact and his accuracy.

 

[Foxholer]

Is the correct answer
Which is why no picture / figure in a 2d page can ever describe a 4d event (i.e.3d plus time)

Not even worth pursuing, unless you are a PGA pro looking for a load of gullible people to flog a "magic move" swing theory to

Or unless you are a PGA pro looking for a simple bit of geometry that you can represent with a bit of balsa wood and charge £20 for

Completely agree!

Bob.

Luther beat you to that aid many years ago - The Explanar ( and I know where there's one likely to be disposed of too).

And Moe Norman's 'straightest hitter ever' swing completely negates any purpose to trying to apply such rigid rules too.

If you want a generalisation of 'good practice'/standardisation in a swing, check out the book 'Swing like a Pro'. Recognises that there's a lot of differences in Pro swings, but concentrates on the (important) things that the vast majority of them do the same.

The point of the thread was to try and emphasise the importance of the weight shifting into the left side.

If it's so important to get the weight onto the left side, have you considered that it might be better to keep the weight on that side in the first place? Fewer moving parts and timing involved. Ball striking is likely to be far better too!

 

[JustOne]

The point of the thread was to try and emphasise the importance of the weight shifting into the left side..

I've heard about that whole 'weight on the left side' somewhere before...........


It would be important if you go on and tell people HOW to shift their weight to the left side, what does that mean/involve?

 

[bobmac]

I never liked the Explanar, especially as LB copied it from someone else.
I saw one identical to his 'invention' back in the late 80s in Austria. But that's a different story.

but concentrates on the (important) things that the vast majority of them do the same.

Would you consider a forward weight shift through impact something important that the vast majority do?

 

[JustOne]

I never liked the Explanar

I'll second that.... I reckon Fred Couples would 'third' it.

The swingpath isn't 2 dimensional so you can't expect it to work on a flat/rigid/tilted metal contraption.

 

[CMAC]

I'll second that.... I reckon Fred Couples would 'third' it.

The swingpath isn't 2 dimensional so you can't expect it to work on a flat/rigid/tilted metal contraption.

I'll third it, by co-incidence I saw one yesterday, tried it and thought how ridiculous it is to categorise short/tall/fat/thin/athletic/non-athletic golfers into the same contraption.
There are many paths to get to a square impact position.

 

[Airlie_Andy]

Slightly O/T but the difference between Luuuke and Rors is quite striking. It looks to me like Luuuke is quite "armsy" until the club gets past the horizontal and then the shoulder turn really kicks in whereas Rors begins the shoulder turn much sooner. Rors also swings far more from the inside and Luuuke seems to flick his wrists over after impact. Just my ameatuer observation for the day.

 

[JustOne]

Slightly O/T but the difference between Luuuke and Rors is quite striking. It looks to me like Luuuke is quite "armsy" until the club gets past the horizontal and then the shoulder turn really kicks in whereas Rors begins the shoulder turn much sooner. Rors also swings far more from the inside and Luuuke seems to flick his wrists over after impact. Just my ameatuer observation for the day.

Yep, I agree with all of that... Rory drops to the inside a little more on his downswing and 'swings out' a little more, he also has a little more shoulder tilt towards the ball at the top of his swing. Luke recocks his wrists through the ball (just something he's always done). Also (for what it's worth) Luke tends to fade his drives and Rory plays a draw.

BOTH take the club up on a steeper plane than most of us choppers