Is it permissible to rate your own course for NQ Winter golf?

2blue

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Asking as it'll be a while before the assessors can get around to doing it for us.
If so what reductions would apply to......
Course shortened by 200yds from 5,936yds
All bunkers GUR
Pick, clean & place in the general area
A ball can be dropped without penalty, if agreed lost, in an 'abnormal ground-conditions' area.
Normal greens & tees

I ask as Members generally are very unhappy if you simply say, playoff 75% rather than the WHS 95%

The Summer Tee is Par 70 Rated 68.8 Slope 121

With the above conditions in mind what would be a reasonable Slope? Can it be done as I have a figure in mind?
 
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Our course uses Winter Tees and we “Tee up” in the winter so all comps until April are Non-qualifiers.

Our Winter Tees were not Slope rated when the County did the rest, so as we put the Yellow/Red Markers on the Winter Tees we are using the slope off them and use 95%.

Can I ask why if you want to play NQ’s you can’t just stick with a slope of 121?
 

2blue

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Our course uses Winter Tees and we “Tee up” in the winter so all comps until April are Non-qualifiers.

Our Winter Tees were not Slope rated when the County did the rest, so as we put the Yellow/Red Markers on the Winter Tees we are using the slope off them and use 95%.

Can I ask why if you want to play NQ’s you can’t just stick with a slope of 121?
We could do that but it then begs the question, why no change bearing in mind the significant changes in playing conditions mentioned in the OP?
 

rulefan

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Crude calculation CR about 66-67.
Slope no way to calculate.

Can I assume you are not planning to play qualifiers on that course?
 

patricks148

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We have been deemed to not be playing on a rated course as no scores can go in till April. we are playing off a mixture of tee's which from playing yesterday there are a couple of holes that are not on actual tee's , though not sure why as are the same distance as where the blue tee would be and one is further back that that or right next to the tee??
 

jim8flog

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Asking as it'll be a while before the assessors can get around to doing it for us.
If so what reductions would apply to......
Course shortened by 200yds from 5,936yds
All bunkers GUR
Pick, clean & place in the general area
A ball can be dropped without penalty, if agreed lost, in an 'abnormal ground-conditions' area.
Normal greens & tees

I ask as Members generally are very unhappy if you simply say, playoff 75% rather than the WHS 95%

The Summer Tee is Par 70 Rated 68.8 Slope 121

With the above conditions in mind what would be a reasonable Slope? Can it be done as I have a figure in mind?

The one thing that I can see in that (if you considering going forward for a rated course) is the lift clean and place. For areas where the grass is not cut to fairway height it should be mark, lift, clean and replace.

You are allowed to apply to the Authorised Association for sanction for such changes and continue with qualifiers. Have a read through Appendix G of The Rules of Handicapping.

There is a chart for adjusting course rating and slope in that section.
 

Swango1980

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Asking as it'll be a while before the assessors can get around to doing it for us.
If so what reductions would apply to......
Course shortened by 200yds from 5,936yds
All bunkers GUR
Pick, clean & place in the general area
A ball can be dropped without penalty, if agreed lost, in an 'abnormal ground-conditions' area.
Normal greens & tees

I ask as Members generally are very unhappy if you simply say, playoff 75% rather than the WHS 95%

The Summer Tee is Par 70 Rated 68.8 Slope 121

With the above conditions in mind what would be a reasonable Slope? Can it be done as I have a figure in mind?
I was bored at work, so I did quite an extensive analysis of 100 different courses to see what the general relationship was between different lengths on the course and bogey ratings (length being about 90% to most critical value that impacts these ratings). I then scored other variables that make up the obstacles, to account for the additional 10%. From this, I determined that at my home course, where the winter greens shorten the course by 480 yards, the Men's Slope would fall from 130 to 110, and the ladies slope from 140 to 120. In other words, course handicaps would be scaled by 85% for men, 86% for ladies (i.e before you convert using the extra 95% for Playing Handicaps)

I just plugged your numbers into the equations I got, and made some subjective difficulty comparisons due to bunkers being GUR, relief in rough, etc. Your course rating fell to 67.1, bogey rating to 88.2 and Slope to 114. So, Course Handicaps would effectively be 94% of the normal value (again, before applying 95% Playing Handicap). Obviously, this is just based on typical trends of ratings against length, and some subjectivity on your obstacle ratings (which is only a small part of the ratings anyway). But, it would certainly appear 75% is quite an extreme reduction, that would disadvantage higher handicappers. However, by playing full Course Ratings (Slope), lower handicappers would be at a disadvantage (as shorter distance, relief in rough, bunkers GUR will all be relatively more favourable to higher handicappers)
 

2blue

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I was bored at work, so I did quite an extensive analysis of 100 different courses to see what the general relationship was between different lengths on the course and bogey ratings (length being about 90% to most critical value that impacts these ratings). I then scored other variables that make up the obstacles, to account for the additional 10%. From this, I determined that at my home course, where the winter greens shorten the course by 480 yards, the Men's Slope would fall from 130 to 110, and the ladies slope from 140 to 120. In other words, course handicaps would be scaled by 85% for men, 86% for ladies (i.e before you convert using the extra 95% for Playing Handicaps)

I just plugged your numbers into the equations I got, and made some subjective difficulty comparisons due to bunkers being GUR, relief in rough, etc. Your course rating fell to 67.1, bogey rating to 88.2 and Slope to 114. So, Course Handicaps would effectively be 94% of the normal value (again, before applying 95% Playing Handicap). Obviously, this is just based on typical trends of ratings against length, and some subjectivity on your obstacle ratings (which is only a small part of the ratings anyway). But, it would certainly appear 75% is quite an extreme reduction, that would disadvantage higher handicappers. However, by playing full Course Ratings (Slope), lower handicappers would be at a disadvantage (as shorter distance, relief in rough, bunkers GUR will all be relatively more favourable to higher handicappers)
That's a brilliant 'precis' & the kind of thing I was hoping for. Yes I feel that 75% is rather over the top & particularly discouraging to the very high h/cappers even though they are favoured by the measures we've put in place to try & allow competitive golf to continue in as enjoyable way as possible. Thanks very much for your efforts & thoughtful contribution, Swango
& to you also Jim as we'll maybe have to have a close look at the 'Pick & replace' option as well as the Appendix G
 

2blue

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Crude calculation CR about 66-67.
Slope no way to calculate.

Can I assume you are not planning to play qualifiers on that course?
Having looked at Appendix G it appears that we could perhaps look at doing so keeping within the 300yds shortening & introducing pick, clean & replace'. Am I right in thinking that we, as a Club, could implement that or would we need further verification? Probs looking at it for next year (2021-22) rather than this.
 

rulefan

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Having looked at Appendix G it appears that we could perhaps look at doing so keeping within the 300yds shortening & introducing pick, clean & replace'. Am I right in thinking that we, as a Club, could implement that or would we need further verification? Probs looking at it for next year (2021-22) rather than this.
As long as you are only using this course for "non-qualifiers" then you can do what you like. To play any "qualifiers" the course must be formally rated by the County.
 

rulefan

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Is there a waiting list for this?
It depends on which county you are in. And then it depends on how many VOLUNTEER raters your county managed to recruit from the spectators watching and criticising from the side.
But no rating can be done outside the 'normal' playing season which starts in April/May.
No - just usual shocking service to golf clubs from county union.......and you wonder why golfer/clubs get the hump about paying affiliation fees.
Did you volunteer to join an unpaid rating team?
 

wjemather

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Asking as it'll be a while before the assessors can get around to doing it for us.
If so what reductions would apply to......
Course shortened by 200yds from 5,936yds
All bunkers GUR
Pick, clean & place in the general area
A ball can be dropped without penalty, if agreed lost, in an 'abnormal ground-conditions' area.
Normal greens & tees

I ask as Members generally are very unhappy if you simply say, playoff 75% rather than the WHS 95%

The Summer Tee is Par 70 Rated 68.8 Slope 121

With the above conditions in mind what would be a reasonable Slope? Can it be done as I have a figure in mind?
EG guidance: "The solution, where such tees are NEVER used for any form of qualifying competition - or for returning pre-registered social scores - and therefore scores will NOT be used for handicap purposes - is that the Slope rating for the main set of tees for that gender should be used to calculate Course Handicaps, similar to how it has worked under CONGU."

Also, EG have relaxed their process for obtaining "provisional ratings" to include any permanent tee markers (e.g. seasonal tees) that are currently unrated and missing a course measurement certificate and/or tee inspection by raters (only valid until 30 September 2021 instead of the usual 24 months); application form through county secretaries (to county rating advisors).
 

rulefan

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EG guidance: "The solution, where such tees are NEVER used for any form of qualifying competition - or for returning pre-registered social scores - and therefore scores will NOT be used for handicap purposes - is that the Slope rating for the main set of tees for that gender should be used to calculate Course Handicaps, similar to how it has worked under CONGU."

Also, EG have relaxed their process for obtaining "provisional ratings" to include any permanent tee markers (e.g. seasonal tees) that are currently unrated and missing a course measurement certificate and/or tee inspection by raters (only valid until 30 September 2021 instead of the usual 24 months); application form through county secretaries (to county rating advisors).
Where can this be found?
 

Wildboy370

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Asking as it'll be a while before the assessors can get around to doing it for us.
If so what reductions would apply to......
Course shortened by 200yds from 5,936yds
All bunkers GUR
Pick, clean & place in the general area
A ball can be dropped without penalty, if agreed lost, in an 'abnormal ground-conditions' area.
Normal greens & tees

I ask as Members generally are very unhappy if you simply say, playoff 75% rather than the WHS 95%

The Summer Tee is Par 70 Rated 68.8 Slope 121

With the above conditions in mind what would be a reasonable Slope? Can it be done as I have a figure in mind?
Hi. As I play at Skipton, I too asked for the “if ball lost in abnormal ground conditions free drop local rule” but was told Yorkshire Golf Union would not allow it. Did you consult them or just do it which would be the sensible way?
we also allow the picking and dropping off the fairway into rough if you don’t like playing off the fairway mat, which I find a far more unfair local rule to no free drop from lost ball.
 
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