Irish vote

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

It's good news. No one has ever put across a compelling case, religious or otherwise, against legitimising gay marriage. Any objection is based in bigotry IMO.

Not totally so. Many oppose gay marriage on the grounds that marriage as understood today is a religious institution and that this governments are appropriating the word marriage for political ends - to rightly in my view formalise the love between a couple. But governments need not have decided that marriage is what it is and could have called the formalisation anything they wanted. Wed be a bit miffed if another sport very similar but different to golf decided to call itself golf.

BTW whilst I was unsure at first on this I have reconciled myself to the use of the word marriage to describe the formalising further of the loving relationship between a gay couple. But please don't assume those who oppose it are bigots as that is just not the case.

 

[palindromicbob]

It wasn't a government decision to trust the people. Allowing gay marriage is a change in constitution and Irish law says they can only change it with a referendum.

Still had to be approved by government before getting to the referendum stage. Admittedly if a no had been on the cards I don't think it would have gotten past the first stage.

 

[User20205]

You may be correct in your opinion Sir, then again you may not be! To suggest that any objection is based on bigotry is in it's self bigoted. It dismisses another's right to form an opinion contrary to your own.

Replace 10 divots and repair 20 pitch marks in penance.

Just rubbish mate. To preach hate and division is bigotry, to challenge that is not in itself prejudiced, it's a statement of fact.

Not totally so. Many oppose gay marriage on the grounds that marriage as understood today is a religious institution and that this governments are appropriating the word marriage for political ends - to rightly in my view formalise the love between a couple. But governments need not have decided that marriage is what it is and could have called the formalisation anything they wanted. Wed be a bit miffed if another sport very similar but different to golf decided to call itself golf.

BTW whilst I was unsure at first on this I have reconciled myself to the use of the word marriage to describe the formalising further of the loving relationship between a gay couple. But please don't assume those who oppose it are bigots as that is just not the case.

Marriage isn't a religious institution. It's a civil partnership that's been high- jacket by religion. To object to a gay marriage on religious grounds is hypocritical at best, bigoted at worst. To hide behind a technicality is self deluding.

There is no objection to gay marriage apart from preconceived bigotry and fear.

If I'm in a loving relationship with my same sex partner why should I have to settle for a lesser Union?

 

[PhilTheFragger]

Don't want fisticuffs here lads, this is an area where whatever argument is put up, you are not going to change anyone else's opinions on the matter.

What I must ask is that everyone's opinions are respected, We live in an evolving progressive society whether we like it or not, things change and life moves on.

To be honest the only people this really concerns are those personally involved . Whether a same sex Union is called a civil partnership or a marriage makes no difference to me, Churches are not normally involved and it is right that the same legal rights apply to both a same sex marriage or a traditional one.

The danger is that the vocal minority fail to accept that things have moved on and kick up a fuss, this then comes over as sour grapes and possible bigotry .
The decision has been made,it is not going to change it doesn't affect you, move on

 

[User20205]

Don't want fisticuffs here lads, this is an area where whatever argument is put up, you are not going to change anyone else's opinions on the matter.

What I must ask is that everyone's opinions are respected, We live in an evolving progressive society whether we like it or not, things change and life moves on.

To be honest the only people this really concerns are those personally involved . Whether a same sex Union is called a civil partnership or a marriage makes no difference to me, Churches are not normally involved and it is right that the same legal rights apply to both a same sex marriage or a traditional one.

The danger is that the vocal minority fail to accept that things have moved on and kick up a fuss, this then comes over as sour grapes and possible bigotry .
The decision has been made,it is not going to change it doesn't affect you, move on

It matters to gay couples though. The difference between a civil partnership and a marriage is one of legitimacy. If I'm gay why should I settle for a secondary Union?

I'm not really into pushing anyone's buttons.....but I've never heard a coherent argument against gay marriage. It's possible to pontificate about religion and the institution of marriage being undermined etc etc.

But we all know the real reason of objection, it's just that no one is brave enough to state it

 

[PhilTheFragger]

It matters to gay couples though. The difference between a civil partnership and a marriage is one of legitimacy. If I'm gay why should I settle for a secondary Union?

I'm not really into pushing anyone's buttons.....but I've never heard a coherent argument against gay marriage. It's possible to pontificate about religion and the institution of marriage being undermined etc etc.

But we all know the real reason of objection, it's just that no one is brave enough to state it

I'm not disagreeing with you .However , I like tradition, it's a big part of our national culture and identity , but the world turns and we need to move with it.look it's a lovely day outside, the world hasn't ended, Golf is on the TV , this decision won't have any impact at all for most of us, but for those directly involved I am pleased for them

 

[Ethan]

I think it should be obvious now that the best way to proceed is for marriage to be a state secular event with or without a religious element as you choose.

I don't believe in supernatural stuff, including religion, but wasn't that bearded bloke famous for standing up for oppressed and discriminated groups? I bet he would have voted yes.

 

[c1973]

I think it should be obvious now that the best way to proceed is for marriage to be a state secular event with or without a religious element as you choose.

I don't believe in supernatural stuff, including religion, but wasn't that bearded bloke famous for standing up for oppressed and discriminated groups? I bet he would have voted yes.

I'm pretty sure he would have as well.
I mean, this was a guy who was married to a hooker (allegedly), obviously a laid back live and let live kind of guy.

 

[Foxholer]

You may be correct in your opinion Sir, then again you may not be! To suggest that any objection is based on bigotry is in it's self bigoted. It dismisses another's right to form an opinion contrary to your own.

Replace 10 divots and repair 20 pitch marks in penance.

Just rubbish mate. To preach hate and division is bigotry, to challenge that is not in itself prejudiced, it's a statement of fact.

But that's not the way your initial argument came across! Here's a link to a definition of 'Bigotry' stating that it's the intolerance of another's view! So I'm with Socket on this one. Though would perhaps modify the highlighted 'is' to be 'could be'!

Marriage isn't a religious institution. It's a civil partnership that's been high- jacket by religion. To object to a gay marriage on religious grounds is hypocritical at best, bigoted at worst. To hide behind a technicality is self deluding.

There is no objection to gay marriage apart from preconceived bigotry and fear.

If I'm in a loving relationship with my same sex partner why should I have to settle for a lesser Union?

Er.....Marriage has far greater Religious/Moral origins than Civil ones!

You appear to be heading towards Socket's 'counter-bigotry' bigotry - many deeply religious folk have issues when the fundamentals of their faith - scriptures - are challenged! It's one of the areas where using ancient scriptures and attitudes as 'gospel' and the only way to act conflicts with modern society. Doing so - and the many and varied 'interpretations' of them - is pretty much the major cause of conflict in the world today!

I'm pleased the Irish have voted this way! I've always thought that the 'Civil Partnership' arrangement would only be a temporary arrangement before 'Marriage' was ratified for all.

 

[User20205]

U

But that's not the way your initial argument came across! Here's a link to a definition of 'Bigotry' stating that it's the intolerance of another's view! So I'm with Socket on this one. Though would perhaps modify the highlighted 'is' to be 'could be'!



Er.....Marriage has far greater Religious/Moral origins than Civil ones!

You appear to be heading towards Socket's 'counter-bigotry' bigotry - many deeply religious folk have issues when the fundamentals of their faith - scriptures - are challenged! It's one of the areas where using ancient scriptures and attitudes as 'gospel' and the only way to act conflicts with modern society. Doing so - and the many and varied 'interpretations' of them - is pretty much the major cause of conflict in the world today!

I'm pleased the Irish have voted this way! I've always thought that the 'Civil Partnership' arrangement would only be a temporary arrangement before 'Marriage' was ratified for all.

The 'counter bigotry' bigotry argument is that of a child. It's classic deflection, and to hide behind it does anyone no favours. If the anti group had a legitimate argument then I'd listen to it, that's not bigotry my friend. The fact they don't leads to absolute statements.

Marriage is a civil institution, performed occasionally by a religion. It existed pre Christianity and other organised religion, therefore they have no ownership. It's one of a few pillars they attempt to cling on to to give them some sense of importance and relavence.

Btw don't post a link to definitions it makes you look like a knob:thup:

 

[PhilTheFragger]

Unhelpful posting will result in the thread being closed

 

[User20205]

Unhelpful posting will result in the thread being closed

Normally I'd respect others views, I'm very much live & let live....but I can't ignore mindset that promotes cultural and social apartheid.

 

[FairwayDodger]

I tend to agree with therod. I haven't yet heard a coherent argument against equal marriage that wasn't based on prejudice, bigotry or superstition.

To anyone who doesn't believe in same sex marriage the solution is clear, don't marry someone of the same sex.

Meanwhile my fiancée and I are looking forward to our own wedding, something that even this time last year we weren't able to do.

:cheers:

 

[PhilTheFragger]

Congratulations Karen , and good luck

will be a brave man who comments further on this thread against this issue
Karen do you fancy a job as a mod

 

[c1973]

Not sure anyone has commented against the issue anyway.

A difference of opinion on what constitutes bigotry perhaps.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I tend to agree with therod. I haven't yet heard a coherent argument against equal marriage that wasn't based on prejudice, bigotry or superstition.

To anyone who doesn't believe in same sex marriage the solution is clear, don't marry someone of the same sex.

Meanwhile my fiancée and I are looking forward to our own wedding, something that even this time last year we weren't able to do.

:cheers:

Well said and summed up very well

Two of our best friends were married two years ago and all that mattered was the happiness they shared and the smile on their face

Don't care one single bit for religion and whilst each person can have their own "beliefs" - it should also allows others to live their life under others beliefs.

 

[6inchcup]

Well said and summed up very well

Two of our best friends were married two years ago and all that mattered was the happiness they shared and the smile on their face

Don't care one single bit for religion and whilst each person can have their own "beliefs" - it should also allows others to live their life under others beliefs.

so why does someone's beliefs against issue make them a bigot.

 

[User20205]

so why does someone's beliefs against issue make them a bigot.

Here's your platform mate. Explain why you're against gay marriage:thup:

I'm genuinely interested, make me understand.

 

[Hacker Khan]

so why does someone's beliefs against issue make them a bigot.

Depends what that issue is. If you are against some issues then the explanation most likely (but not always) is bigotry. And the general mood of society in 2015 would define what those issues are. So if you are against say equal opportunities then you are probably a bigot. If you are against say a political party, then you just have a different political opinion.

 

[Hacker Khan]

Here's your platform mate. Explain why you're against gay marriage:thup:

I'm genuinely interested, make me understand.

I suspect a couple of gays got drunk had a fight outside his golf club and it upset him.