Indicating line of play on putting green

[ntommo]

Question from a doubles game (4BBB) this week AB v CD
Player A indicated to Player B the line he thought for his putt. Player C pulled him up and said the grass cannot be touched and forced the penalty / loss of hole. I wasnt sure so have asked and have been quoted Rule 8 but cant see anything regarding this. When googling it comes up with Rule 8.2 but this may have been changed sometime
Anyone help on this.
Thanks

 

[Slab]

Experts will no doubt answer but i though this one changed in 2019. Used to have to keep clear of actually touching the ground when indicating line but thought it was fine now

(I guess with the ability to repair damage etc on the green it means you could hardly penalise someone for touching the line of a putt)

 

[ntommo]

Experts will no doubt answer but i though this one changed in 2019. Used to have to keep clear of actually touching the ground when indicating line but thought it was fine now

(I guess with the ability to repair damage etc on the green it means you could hardly penalise someone for touching the line of a putt)

Yeah when ive looked at the rules i cant find anything, like you say it may have changed

 

[Deleted member 29109]

As always in these situations. Tell whoever is pointing out a rule infringement to show you exactly which rule was broken.

If they can’t, tell them to jog on.

 

[salfordlad]

There is no issue with a partner or caddie touching the putting green to show the line of play providing there is no improvement in the conditions affecting the stroke, there is no setting down of an object and it doesn't occur while the stroke is being made. The 2023 Rules no longer state this explicitly (see Rule 10.2b(2) in the 2019 Rule book) but nothing has actually changed. Player C was simply wrong, wrong, wrong, both now and under the 2019 Rules. Pre-2019, greater restrictions applied to touching the line of putt.

 

[rulefan]

Question from a doubles game (4BBB) this week AB v CD
Player A indicated to Player B the line he thought for his putt. Player C pulled him up and said the grass cannot be touched and forced the penalty / loss of hole. I wasnt sure so have asked and have been quoted Rule 8 but cant see anything regarding this. When googling it comes up with Rule 8.2 but this may have been changed sometime
Anyone help on this.
Thanks

It was forbidden in 2019 under Rule 8-2b but is not now in Rule 10

8-2b On the putting Green
When the player's ball is on the putting green, the player, his partner or either of their caddies may, before but not during the stroke, point out a line for putting, but in doung so the putting green must not be touched.

 

[Steven Rules]

The enbedded video under 10.2b(2) in the Rules App covers (and approves) touching the line of play on the putting green.

 

[Steven Rules]

It was forbidden in 2019 under Rule 8-2b but is not now in Rule 10

8-2b On the putting Green
When the player's ball is on the putting green, the player, his partner or either of their caddies may, before but not during the stroke, point out a line for putting, but in doung so the putting green must not be touched.

Check again. The 8.2b you have quoted is not from the 2019 rules.

As salfordlad has said, pointing out the line of play by touching the putting green was expressly permitted in 10.2b(2) of the 2019 Rules.

 

[Deleted member 25172]

I'm confused. OP hasn't stated in which way the partner indicated the line of play, so I don't understand how player C is automatically wrong without knowing how it was indicated? What am I missing? Is it the interpretation between "touching" and "setting down"?

"Must NOT set an object down anywhere on or off the putting green to show the line of play"

So, am I right then:

A: Partner sets his finger down on the green to indicate putting line - Fine
B: Partner sets his putter down whilst holding it on the green to indicate putting line - Fine
C: Partner lays down his putter and let's go of it to indicate the putting line - No no

 

[Neilds]

Set down means hands removed from the object, think this was mentioned in a previous question

 

[rulie]

I'm confused. OP hasn't stated in which way the partner indicated the line of play, so I don't understand how player C is automatically wrong without knowing how it was indicated? What am I missing? Is it the interpretation between "touching" and "setting down"?

"Must NOT set an object down anywhere on or off the putting green to show the line of play"

So, am I right then:

A: Partner sets his finger down on the green to indicate putting line - Fine
B: Partner sets his putter down on the green to indicate putting line - No no



View attachment 48566

Both of your described actions are fine if the player/partner is still holding on to the putter while indicating the line.
The Rules say "setting an object down" means that the object is in contact with the ground and the player is not touching the object.

 

[Deleted member 25172]

Both of your described actions are fine if the player/partner is still holding on to the putter while indicating the line.
The Rules say "setting an object down" means that the object is in contact with the ground and the player is not touching the object.

Thanks. I was editing my post to make that distinction with scenario C when you replied. Thanks for confirming.

 

[ntommo]

I'm confused. OP hasn't stated in which way the partner indicated the line of play, so I don't understand how player C is automatically wrong without knowing how it was indicated? What am I missing? Is it the interpretation between "touching" and "setting down"?

"Must NOT set an object down anywhere on or off the putting green to show the line of play"

So, am I right then:

A: Partner sets his finger down on the green to indicate putting line - Fine
B: Partner sets his putter down whilst holding it on the green to indicate putting line - Fine
C: Partner lays down his putter and let's go of it to indicate the putting line - No no



View attachment 48566

Touched the grass with the putter at where to aim

 

[salfordlad]

I'm confused. OP hasn't stated in which way the partner indicated the line of play, so I don't understand how player C is automatically wrong without knowing how it was indicated? What am I missing? Is it the interpretation between "touching" and "setting down"?

"Must NOT set an object down anywhere on or off the putting green to show the line of play"

So, am I right then:

A: Partner sets his finger down on the green to indicate putting line - Fine
B: Partner sets his putter down whilst holding it on the green to indicate putting line - Fine
C: Partner lays down his putter and let's go of it to indicate the putting line - No no



View attachment 48566

"Touching" and "setting down" are very different actions. OP only mentioned touching.

 

[salfordlad]

The enbedded video under 10.2b(2) in the Rules App covers (and approves) touching the line of play on the putting green.

Thanks. Am I the only one to think that strange - taking useful factual information out of the Rule and placing it in a video that cannot be viewed in the Rule book?

 

[Deleted member 25172]

"Touching" and "setting down" are very different actions. OP only mentioned touching.

Yeah, got it now. Added scenario C in my post and seem I did understand things correctly from the beginning. I'll blame the slight confusion on the language barrier as English isn't my first language.

 

[rulefan]

Check again. The 8.2b you have quoted is not from the 2019 rules.

As salfordlad has said, pointing out the line of play by touching the putting green was expressly permitted in 10.2b(2) of the 2019 Rules.

Oops. I meant pre 2019

 

[rulefan]

Thanks. Am I the only one to think that strange - taking useful factual information out of the Rule and placing it in a video that cannot be viewed in the Rule book?

You are not alone.

 

[Steven Rules]

Thanks. Am I the only one to think that strange - taking useful factual information out of the Rule and placing it in a video that cannot be viewed in the Rule book?

It is weird.

I have had a (random) look at the embedded videos in Rule 14 and they are simply reinforcing the text of Rule 14.

The aforementioned 10.2b(2) video is now out of context because this Rule has been rewritten in 2023 to say what you CAN'T do rather than what you can do. So the (presumably) pre-2023 video, which says what you CAN do, looks out of place or out of conext in the 2023 version of 10.2b(2), which now says what you CAN'T do.

It is not wrong but, as you have said, it is strange. I would say contextually strange.

 

[Steven Rules]

Partner sets his finger down on the green to indicate putting line - Fine

I expect that setting a finger down on the putting green would be quite a gruesome and painful experience.