Independent Scotland

[chrisd]

Every time that this subject is aired, the main factor from the Scottish side seems simply to be "can we afford it" now surely the question that should be at the heart of the matter is "do we want to go our own way because we would ideally like to be a seperate country and fully govern ourselves and our future". It seems to me that its like having a grown daughter at home who would love to leave home, but stays because she cant afford to set up on her own.

 

[williamalex1]

Personally I would prefer to hear independent, informed thought and opinion, not Westminster and not Salmond. We can all search for links that support our particular stance or argument.

I really wouldn't want to live in a country run Salmond, his ability to totally miss the important issues and rush through legislation like the totally knee jerk and OTT Offensive Behaviour at Football Act being a case in point.

His constant sound bites on how an Independent Scotland will be are embarrassing at times. His assurance that an independent Scotland would just walz into full membership of the EU despite the Presidents stance that they wouldn't being a case in point.

What's the betting that Braveheart is on STV on 17 September 2014?

You can take our oil but you can't take our freedom. oops to late.

 

[Adi2Dassler]

Personally I would prefer to hear independent, informed thought and opinion, not Westminster and not Salmond. We can all search for links that support our particular stance or argument.

I really wouldn't want to live in a country run Salmond, his ability to totally miss the important issues and rush through legislation like the totally knee jerk and OTT Offensive Behaviour at Football Act being a case in point.

His constant sound bites on how an Independent Scotland will be are embarrassing at times. His assurance that an independent Scotland would just walz into full membership of the EU despite the Presidents stance that they wouldn't being a case in point.

What's the betting that Braveheart is on STV on 17 September 2014?

Forget Salmond, he's becoming irrelevant.Nicola Sturgeon is the one to have an opinion on, she'll be the one leading any deal on any independence negotiation.

 

[patricks148]

i would hope once Scotland was independent , that little fat fugger would have had his day. Its been the main focus of the SNP so once thats achived, one would hope they would be irrelevant?

As for Salmon having better things to do, like last week the SNP Conf held at Inverness again, just as Castle Stuart was reopening for the season, guess where he was???

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Interesting point you make DV.

In your opinion, or any other Scots mans on here, is there something Salmond should be concentrating on instead of the independence vote?

If so, why isn't he?

Do you think that would change in the event of either a yes or no vote?

To state the bleedin obvious...managing the country. That is what he was elected to do.

The Scottish Lib/Dem spring conference looked like it was held in a village hall.
Sad sight for a grand old Scottish Party.

 

[bigslice]

Every time that this subject is aired, the main factor from the Scottish side seems simply to be "can we afford it" now surely the question that should be at the heart of the matter is "do we want to go our own way because we would ideally like to be a seperate country and fully govern ourselves and our future". It seems to me that its like having a grown daughter at home who would love to leave home, but stays because she cant afford to set up on her own.

but it is all about money

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Every time that this subject is aired, the main factor from the Scottish side seems simply to be "can we afford it" now surely the question that should be at the heart of the matter is "do we want to go our own way because we would ideally like to be a seperate country and fully govern ourselves and our future". It seems to me that its like having a grown daughter at home who would love to leave home, but stays because she cant afford to set up on her own.

Chris, to many Scots it is simply the fact that we do not want to be ruled by the Tories for the next 50 years.
Anyone in England know how many Scottish Tory MP's sit in Westminster?
Sort that one out and there is your answer.

 

[jimbob.someroo]

Chris, to many Scots it is simply the fact that we do not want to be ruled by the Tories for the next 50 years.
Anyone in England know how many Scottish Tory MP's sit in Westminster?
Sort that one out and there is your answer.

So if Labour had continued to do well, and the Tories hadn't taken over a few years back, there wouldn't be any call for independence?

 

[Adi2Dassler]

So if Labour had continued to do well, and the Tories hadn't taken over a few years back, there wouldn't be any call for independence?

That's funny. Between invading a sovereign country illegally and endorsing and promoting the City of London to act in a shameful manner, Labour hardly did well.They are the opposite check of the same arse as the tories.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

So if Labour had continued to do well, and the Tories hadn't taken over a few years back, there wouldn't be any call for independence?

There certainly would have been less of a desire.
Most folk in Scotland saw right through 'New Labour'.
The earlier poster had it spot on. England are centre right and Scotland are centre left. New Labour moved to centre right with Blair.
Such a crying shame we lost John Smith. Also David Owen and Shirley Williams who were forced to leave Labour by the loony lefties.

 

[jimbob.someroo]

That's funny. Between invading a sovereign country illegally and endorsing and promoting the City of London to act in a shameful manner, Labour hardly did well.They are the opposite check of the same arse as the tories.

Which seems strange as their vote increased at the last general election in Scotland, despite being down in England and Wales. I may be pretty naive to all of this but if you hate the Tories and the LibDems (both votes went down at last GE) and apparently dislike Labour too (even though you increased their vote last time out) and a large proportion aren't too keen on Mr Salmond and his party, who do you guys want to run the place?

It seems pretty easy to say 'we don't like them, or them, or them', without actually providing concrete plans for the way forward and numbers proving that the majority of Scots want to do the same thing.

 

[patricks148]

So if Labour had continued to do well, and the Tories hadn't taken over a few years back, there wouldn't be any call for independence?

Scotland was mostly socialist and still is in areas. Where I live its mostly Liberal, but I can’t see the Ginger weasel getting back in here now he’s a Tory lackey. SNP votes are increasing even the English people that live up here are now voting SNP and that’s quite a few.

The SNP has a socialist streak, free prescriptions and education etc.
As for Tory’s the damage was done by Maggie lots still remember the poll tax was trailed out in Scotland first

 

[Adi2Dassler]

Which seems strange as their vote increased at the last general election in Scotland, despite being down in England and Wales. I may be pretty naive to all of this but if you hate the Tories and the LibDems (both votes went down at last GE) and apparently dislike Labour too (even though you increased their vote last time out) and a large proportion aren't too keen on Mr Salmond and his party, who do you guys want to run the place?

It seems pretty easy to say 'we don't like them, or them, or them', without actually providing concrete plans for the way forward and numbers proving that the majority of Scots want to do the same thing.

I'd want Labour to find itself again, not the new labour shambles concocted to smooze the tory vote in England...which is fine for England, it's a reflection on their society as far as I can tell, but it doesn't sit well with the Scottish population.the party of John Smith and Gordon Brown (before he got into bed with Blair) would do me fine.

I think Salmond is the best politician in The UK and can bet that not one of the other leaders agree to take him on in any kind of debate, he'd molicate them.He is a jambo, though, so can understand why he's unpopular.Nicola Sturgeon will be the leader of that party soon enough.

I'd want a Scottish conservative party to keep everyone in line...and a reasonable representation reflecting their popularity in the borders and D&G, a Lib Dem party removing themselves from the clustercrap of the English party that reflects the demands of the highlands and islands

And a socialist workers party, a green party, independents like Margo and Canavan.The Scottish political scene is pretty healthy, with potential to be more.

 

[chrisd]

Chris, to many Scots it is simply the fact that we do not want to be ruled by the Tories for the next 50 years.
Anyone in England know how many Scottish Tory MP's sit in Westminster?
Sort that one out and there is your answer.

You won't be ruled by the Tories for the next 50 years, you make many of your own decisions anyway (certainly more freedom than us Englishto have your wishes carried out).

I wasn't trying to make it a political argument, I was just pointing out that as an idealogical argument, those in favour of independence should want it irrespective of whether its affordable.

 

[One Planer]

I was just pointing out that as an idealogical argument, those in favour of independence should want it irrespective of whether its affordable.

:clap:

 

[jimbob.someroo]

I'd want Labour to find itself again, not the new labour shambles concocted to smooze the tory vote in England...which is fine for England, it's a reflection on their society as far as I can tell, but it doesn't sit well with the Scottish population.the party of John Smith and Gordon Brown (before he got into bed with Blair) would do me fine.

I think Salmond is the best politician in The UK and can bet that not one of the other leaders agree to take him on in any kind of debate, he'd molicate them.He is a jambo, though, so can understand why he's unpopular.Nicola Sturgeon will be the leader of that party soon enough.

I'd want a Scottish conservative party to keep everyone in line...and a reasonable representation reflecting their popularity in the borders and D&G, a Lib Dem party removing themselves from the clustercrap of the English party that reflects the demands of the highlands and islands

And a socialist workers party, a green party, independents like Margo and Canavan.The Scottish political scene is pretty healthy, with potential to be more.

I can't agree that Salmond is the best politician in the UK.

Quite interesting looking at the stats from the the last General Election. Labour had the largest increase in vote, only just, over SNP, (Cons up 1% and Libs down). Interesting the Conservatives actually gained votes in Scotland, albeit mostly in the south.

There is already a Socialist party who claim 0.1% with 3,157 and a Scottish Green party 0.7% and 16,827 of the vote. Independents can, of course, look after individual seats, but if you're looking for someone to look after Scotland as a whole, they can't be classed as a viable option at present.

From the outside looking in, your voting pattern's aren't overly dissimilar to the rest of the UK, and whilst some of you guys have stronger opinions one way or another, the vast majority don't seem to be in a rush to change voting habits of old. The vote against independence has not dipped below 50% in the Ipos Morsi polls since January 2012 with the for vote reaching a high of just 39%. Again, all stats are open to 'interpretation' but all signs point to a united Scotland in 2014.

 

[patricks148]

I can't agree that Salmond is the best politician in the UK.

Quite interesting looking at the stats from the the last General Election. Labour had the largest increase in vote, only just, over SNP, (Cons up 1% and Libs down). Interesting the Conservatives actually gained votes in Scotland, albeit mostly in the south.

There is already a Socialist party who claim 0.1% with 3,157 and a Scottish Green party 0.7% and 16,827 of the vote. Independents can, of course, look after individual seats, but if you're looking for someone to look after Scotland as a whole, they can't be classed as a viable option at present.

From the outside looking in, your voting pattern's aren't overly dissimilar to the rest of the UK, and whilst some of you guys have stronger opinions one way or another, the vast majority don't seem to be in a rush to change voting habits of old. The vote against independence has not dipped below 50% in the Ipos Morsi polls since January 2012 with the for vote reaching a high of just 39%. Again, all stats are open to 'interpretation' but all signs point to a united Scotland in 2014.

how can your voting patterns be sim?

the Torys have only 1 MP in Scotland

 

[jimbob.someroo]

how can your voting patterns be sim?

the Torys have only 1 MP in Scotland

Sorry, should have clarified that by similar I meant more that you don't have one party with over 50% majority and the vote not particularly changing hands in an aggressive manner.

Obviously, your Con vote is substantially less than ours as a %, apologies - writing with sandwich in hand at work.

 

[Adi2Dassler]

I can't agree that Salmond is the best politician in the UK.

Who do you think is?...I'm talking significant politicians,cabinet members or front benchers.

 

[jimbob.someroo]

Personally, I think Vince Cable takes some beating. Had he been appointed Chancellor, which he definitely should have been, the economy would be in safer hands than it is at present.