Independence Poll

[Deleted member 1418]

Sterling is UK so at the moment Scotland have a % share in the UK's cash.
If we become independent I hope the rest of the UK have sufficient funds to re-pay.

It will probably be deducted from Scotland's share of the national debt...........

I couldn't be bothered one way or the other whether Scotland breaks away from the Union, but just hope the Scottish people get told the truth about all the ramifications - national debt, tax, Europe, currency etc etc, before the vote takes place. Besides, if it is a 'yes' vote for independence then it will probably take years to sort out all the details.

And on the vote, it should be a straight 'yes' or 'no' and not include a 'more devolution' option as that would be unfair to the rest of the Union.

 

[One Planer]

The £ is the currency of the 'Bank of England', except it's not actually the bank of England, it's the bank of The UK...the £ is as much ours as it is Englands.

Where did I say it wasn't

We'll continue to use out own currency,thanks very much

I think you mis-understood my post.

The pound sterling is only used in the UNITED KINGDOM of Great Britain and Northern Ireland (Plus dependancies).

The Bank of England prints and distributes money for England and Wales. The Bank of Ireland, the First Trust Bank, the Northern Bank, and the Ulster Bank print the notes for Northern Ireland. The Bank of Scotland, the Royal Bank of Scotland, and the Clydesdale Bank print and distribute the notes for Scotland.

If, IF, Scotland attains its independence, it will not longer be part of the United Kingdom.

If it's no longer part of the United Kingdom, how, legally, can it use the currency of a Union it is no longer part of?

 

[Adi2Dassler]

Where did I say it wasn't



I think you mis-understood my post.

The pound sterling is only used in the UNITED KINGDOM of Great Britain and Northern Ireland (Plus dependancies).

The Bank of England prints and distributes money for England and Wales. The Bank of Ireland, the First Trust Bank, the Northern Bank, and the Ulster Bank print the notes for Northern Ireland. The Bank of Scotland, the Royal Bank of Scotland, and the Clydesdale Bank print and distribute the notes for Scotland.

If, IF, Scotland attains its independence, it will not longer be part of the United Kingdom.

If it's no longer part of the United Kingdom, how, legally, can it use the currency of a Union it is no longer part of?

A fair question.
From my understanding, Scotland would still use 'The Bank of England' as it's central bank and would negotiate a new sterling area, like the euro zone (without the greeks and the spanish!) A good move for both nations, creating stability financially and economically.

There are precedents for this in The Caribbean and West Africa.

 

[One Planer]

A fair question.
From my understanding, Scotland would still use 'The Bank of England' as it's central bank and would negotiate a new sterling area, like the euro zone (without the greeks and the spanish!) A good move for both nations, creating stability financially and economically.

There are precedents for this in The Caribbean and West Africa.

No doubt there will be negotiotion between government "IF" it were to happen.

As a soverign state, as it would be if it were to leave the union, you would imagine that having it's own currency would be the next, logical step?

I think it's a good debate this and it's certainly highlighted to me certain factors I'd never even considered.

 

[Adi2Dassler]

No doubt there will be negotiotion between government "IF" it were to happen.

As a soverign state, as it would be if it were to leave the union, you would imagine that having it's own currency would be the next, logical step?

I think it's a good debate this and it's certainly highlighted to me certain factors I'd never even considered.

The next logical step for an independent Scotland would be to sort out the insanely poor health conditions and housing, especially on The West coast...adults live longer on The Gaza Strip than certain parts of Glasgow.Shameful.
Then I'd want them to look at the truely mental levels of spending on nuclear warheads,dubious wars and the like, all while child poverty in The UK rises.
I'd want them to look at the shameful state of schools and hospitals, employment and taxation.

The name of the currency people use is pretty insignificant in the grand scheme of things.

 

[One Planer]

The next logical step for an independent Scotland would be to sort out the insanely poor health conditions and housing, especially on The West coast...adults live longer on The Gaza Strip than certain parts of Glasgow.Shameful.
Then I'd want them to look at the truely mental levels of spending on nuclear warheads,dubious wars and the like, all while child poverty in The UK rises.
I'd want them to look at the shameful state of schools and hospitals, employment and taxation.

The name of the currency people use is pretty insignificant in the grand scheme of things.

While all the above it true (... And I agree) It still costs money and if there is no viable currency in place.......

 

[Adi2Dassler]

While all the above it true (... And I agree) It still costs money and if there is no viable currency in place.......

There will be a currency, it will be called 'The pound'.

 

[One Planer]

There will be a currency, it will be called 'The pound'.

As easy as that :thup:

 

[Hobbit]

Why, why, why does everyone go on about money?

Do you want independance or not?

 

[USER1999]

A fair question.
From my understanding, Scotland would still use 'The Bank of England' as it's central bank

this is the sort of thing that really annoys the heck out of me though.

If Scotland are to devolve, it should be a complete split. If they are to continue using anything from South of the border, then it is not a complete split. They should either remain, or go, not cherry pick.

And defo no bail outs from the south. Ever. Under any circumstances.

 

[Adi2Dassler]

Why, why, why does everyone go on about money?

Do you want independance or not?

Kinda agree with that, but you have to be pragmatic.

this is the sort of thing that really annoys the heck out of me though.

If Scotland are to devolve, it should be a complete split. If they are to continue using anything from South of the border, then it is not a complete split. They should either remain, or go, not cherry pick.

And defo no bail outs from the south. Ever. Under any circumstances.

There is a problem with that and it's not Scotlands problem, but Englands.It's pretty much accepted that 9% of everything UK owned is Scottish, the easiest way to divvy up is we keep our roads and bridges, England keeps theirs, moving roads and the like would prove rather tricky.
The issue arrives with things like BoE,Embassies,the Falklands,tanks and warships and planes.They're all 9% Scottish, so we either agree to share them, or we sell you our share...if England wants to buy 9% of the BoE and The Falklands from us, you might as well turn of the lights and move to Namibia, cos England will be finito....you simply don't have that kind of money, even in good times.

the important thing to remember is that we'll be partners on this tiny island, vital to each other.It's not a case pulling up the bridge for either side.My dad is English, so is my sister...I really like England and go on holiday there, I wanted England to win last night (but not the whole tourney!)

And as for bail outs, if Scotland does get independence, there will be only one country asking to be bailed out by the other one, and you got it the wrong way round...why do you think so many politicians in England are keen on the union?One answer:money.

 

[DaveM]

Not voted as there is no button. For could not care less. Even more so reading all the hot air on here.

 

[One Planer]

With respect Adi, this is the point I don't quite get with the independence vote/debate. If you could enlighten me (...Seriousy not taking the mick) I would be garteful.

As I see/understand it. Scotland wants full independence from the rest of the union (UK). In short, becoming it's own soverign, self governed country independent of the union?

My understanding is that yes, as part of the union you are entitled to 9% of all assets. However if you choose to leave the union, remember it's the Scottish peoples choice to leave, then why would the new country be entitled to said figure after you choosen to leave.

As an example. British Overseas territories are under the jurisdiction of the United Kingdom (A union Scotland, potentially could leave). Take the Falklands as a further example. If Scotland leave the United Kingdom, as I understand it, you would lose any rights/privilages granted as a part of that Union, including the Falklands?

The same would apply with the B.O.E with the Bank of England being the central bank of the United Kingdom.

How can the new independant country lay claim to assets, both financial and territorial to a union it has chosen to leave of its own accord?

In short. As a part of the union you have your 9% control. If you leave the Union, you forfeit your 9%




What am I missing?

 

[Deleted member 1418]

Another scenario:

The result of the Scottish Independence referendum in 2014 is a 'yes'. Hooray - the SNP have achieved a historical triumph and a date that will go down in history. So the powers that be in London and Edinburgh now start sitting down in earnest to negotiate Scotland's break from the Union. After lengthy negotiations, a date is agreed, but it is not before the next Scottish parliamentary elections in 2016.

2016 comes around and the SNP lose that general election, to be replaced by Labour (or a Lib / Lab coalition). As Labour and the Liberals do not want independence, the new First Minister turns round to the UK PM and says "actually, we now want to remain in the Union" - what happens then?

 

[Adi2Dassler]

What am I missing?

We're currently part of The UK, and as such any resource is owned jointly.The most obvious one's sited in Scotland is Coulport & Faslane.They're so vital to The UK it's difficult to over-egg.But a free and independent Scotland want's no part of that, so we'd concede (after alot of negotiations) that RUK can continue to use Coulport for the next 10-15 years until you've built your own, cos that's how long it will take.

It's a divorce, someone is leaving home, but the furniture and joint bank account have to be divied up.

The Falklands is a funny one.I used it as an example of an overseas territory that 30 years ago English,Scottish,Welsh and Irish men died to protect, there's Scottish personel down there right now.I'd take a guess Scotland would walk away from it quite happily, it'll just be another bargaining tool for us to use.We'll share Embassies though, thats a cert.

And make no mistake, these negotiations have already started, does anyone really think they'll wait until after any vote to sit down?

 

[Adi2Dassler]

Another scenario:

The result of the Scottish Independence referendum in 2014 is a 'yes'. Hooray - the SNP have achieved a historical triumph and a date that will go down in history. So the powers that be in London and Edinburgh now start sitting down in earnest to negotiate Scotland's break from the Union. After lengthy negotiations, a date is agreed, but it is not before the next Scottish parliamentary elections in 2016.

2016 comes around and the SNP lose that general election, to be replaced by Labour (or a Lib / Lab coalition). As Labour and the Liberals do not want independence, the new First Minister turns round to the UK PM and says "actually, we now want to remain in the Union" - what happens then?

Revolution! Not every Labour/Lib Dem supporter is against Independence btw.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Just think of it as Scots shares in Company UK.
We are not just going to hand it to the rest of the UK
The Scots did more than thier share of building it up and keeping it safe.
Look on any WW1 memorial in the Highlands and then take a look at the present population of that area.

Why do you think the English politicians are so desperate to keep Scotland in the Union.

The percentage of tax revenue from Scotland is higher than England as we have more in employment and fewer benifit takers. One of the joys of smaller country.

 

[One Planer]

We're currently part of The UK, and as such any resource is owned jointly.The most obvious one's sited in Scotland is Coulport & Faslane.They're so vital to The UK it's difficult to over-egg.But a free and independent Scotland want's no part of that, so we'd concede (after alot of negotiations) that RUK can continue to use Coulport for the next 10-15 years until you've built your own, cos that's how long it will take.

It's a divorce, someone is leaving home, but the furniture and joint bank account have to be divied up.

The Falklands is a funny one.I used it as an example of an overseas territory that 30 years ago English,Scottish,Welsh and Irish men died to protect, there's Scottish personel down there right now.I'd take a guess Scotland would walk away from it quite happily, it'll just be another bargaining tool for us to use.We'll share Embassies though, thats a cert.

I see your point about divorce Adi', very well made. However some divorces are amicable, some bitter.

If Scotlands share of the national debt is allocated on this basis of your 9%, it will be saddled with debts of around £140billion.

Would an independent Scotland also be made to take back the £187billion in toxic assets of the Royal Bank of Scotland, currently held by the Treasury?

And make no mistake, these negotiations have already started, does anyone really think they'll wait until after any vote to sit down?

Who knows? One thing is for sure us, mere peasants will never know the full facts.

 

[One Planer]

Just think of it as Scots shares in Company UK.
We are not just going to hand it to the rest of the UK
The Scots did more than thier share of building it up and keeping it safe.
Look on any WW1 memorial in the Highlands and then take a look at the present population of that area.

Why do you think the English politicians are so desperate to keep Scotland in the Union.

The percentage of tax revenue from Scotland is higher than England as we have more in employment and fewer benifit takers. One of the joys of smaller country.

As I said in reply to Adi, Droon

It works both ways. Using your company and shares analogy.

Would you try to start a sucessful business that will immediately be saddled wth a £327 Billion debt?

 

[Hobbit]

Just think of it as Scots shares in Company UK.
We are not just going to hand it to the rest of the UK
The Scots did more than thier share of building it up and keeping it safe.
Look on any WW1 memorial in the Highlands and then take a look at the present population of that area.

Why do you think the English politicians are so desperate to keep Scotland in the Union.

The percentage of tax revenue from Scotland is higher than England as we have more in employment and fewer benifit takers. One of the joys of smaller country.

So the Scots did more than their fair share... is a Scottish soldier's life worth more than an English soldier's life? Visit any town or city in England have a look at the numbers of dead from WW1.

And I think you'll find that the depopulation of the Highlands is more to do with jobs/industrialisation.

As for % of tax revenue because of more employment; stats are brilliant. There's a huge amount more tax paid by English tax payers than by Scottish tax payers. The ratio of tax payer to benefit takers may be better in Scotland but the actual sums of money paid into the Treasury by income tax payer in England. There's 31million employed in England, and 2.4million employed in Scotland...

Think your interpretation leaves a lot to be desired.