I'm developing a golf analysis tool

[MendieGK]

When playing on links courses (which the majority of my golf is) you can hit a ball bang down the middle of the fairway and finish on the first cut. In those circumstances I'm happy to consider that as a FIR as you can't control the bounces on the fairway.

Mendies course is pretty wide open in places so you can spray it about and still have a shot. Hit the same shots on somewhere like the the Duchess course at Woburn and you'll be hitting 3 off the tee. So I would rather measure a stat that shows if I'm driving the ball well than one that shows I got away with a bad shot.

I'm not suggesting fairways stat Isn't included. However, a check box that says 'normal approach playable' would be a valuable stat.

My FIR shows as 50%, pretty poor for a 3 handicapper and it would be even less if i didn't hit a lot of 3woods. However, when I'm 80yds past my pp but 10yds in the rough. I know who is going to win most of the time.

 

[Foxholer]

I don't see the point of this stat? So you could be playing on a wide open course and lash a drive miles offline but have a clear shot to the green but the same shot on another course could be out of bounds or buried deep in the trees? At least FIR give you an indication of how accurately you are driving.

I'm with Mengie on this one!

FiR/FH is a pretty nothing stat to me, but 'Drives where GIR should be expected' is useful. I'm almost always much happier for a drive to be in the semi 20-30 yards further on than on the fairway!

 

[Region3]

My FIR shows as 50%, pretty poor for a 3 handicapper.

How about 35% off 4!

 

[3565]

When playing on links courses (which the majority of my golf is) you can hit a ball bang down the middle of the fairway and finish on the first cut. In those circumstances I'm happy to consider that as a FIR as you can't control the bounces on the fairway.

Mendies course is pretty wide open in places so you can spray it about and still have a shot. Hit the same shots on somewhere like the the Duchess course at Woburn and you'll be hitting 3 off the tee. So I would rather measure a stat that shows if I'm driving the ball well than one that shows I got away with a bad shot.

not sure if you understand how shots gained works, as fir gir pir tells you nothing really apart from how many you've hit. You can be in the middle of the fairway/1st cut and your pp in the rough, both same distance away from the pin but cos you've got more control from your position then your pp has, the degree of difficulty for him to hit the green or close to the pin is higher then yours. Conversely if he was in the rough but 25yards further then you, his shot difficulty reduces cos of the shorter distance to and club used and you might then have the higher degree of shot difficulty even tho your in the middle of the fairway, so it's not a stat that shows I got away with it as each shot is ranked in difficulty from X position with Y yards to the hole with Z club.

 

[fundy]

How about 35% off 4!

If i didnt hit iron off so many tees Id happily enter this contest lol

 

[Alex1975]

Says a lot about the rest of your game though chaps....

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

not sure if you understand how shots gained works, as fir gir pir tells you nothing really apart from how many you've hit. You can be in the middle of the fairway/1st cut and your pp in the rough, both same distance away from the pin but cos you've got more control from your position then your pp has, the degree of difficulty for him to hit the green or close to the pin is higher then yours. Conversely if he was in the rough but 25yards further then you, his shot difficulty reduces cos of the shorter distance to and club used and you might then have the higher degree of shot difficulty even tho your in the middle of the fairway, so it's not a stat that shows I got away with it as each shot is ranked in difficulty from X position with Y yards to the hole with Z club.

And I'm not sure if you understand the point I'm making either.

 

[MendieGK]

Says a lot about the rest of your game though chaps....

Always look for the positives ;-)

 

[3565]

And I'm not sure if you understand the point I'm making either.

Yeah you prefer to judge your game on fir's and how many you hit as a reference on how well you've driven on that day, but we all know the vagaries that links golf gives you, and it can do the opposite by you hitting it off line knowing it's not going to be on the fairway yet big bounce at right angles and a poor drive (by fir's standard) has now become an fir through a little bit of luck.

Shots gained is based on your position on the course including hazards to the target, it's a more complex system and needs more working out, Fir's Gir's etc is a simpler way but doesn't really tell you that much? Each to their own.

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

No, the point I'm trying to make is why measure a stat that is entirely based on luck? You can hit a wild drive on a wide open course and get away with it but the same drive on a tight tree lined course could mean a lost ball. The chances of being in trouble on the fairway are pretty slim so I would rather be on the short stuff than 'gaining shots' from the rough. A 4 from the fairway is the same as a 4 from the rough on the scorecard but on the courses I play there are fewer obstacles in the fairway so I'll take my chances on trying to hit it straight.

 

[Jates12]

I think some points on here are very well made and I am in agreement with Mendie. I would rather be hitting wedge from 100 and in the 1st cut missing FIR than be hitting 6i from the middle of the fairway.

The best stat addition that has been mentioned on here is the proximity to chipping one. I struggle around the green at times and that stat would be fantastic for me to increase my chances and knowledge of what works best for me. The only thing these apps cant take into consideration is that though so i fear that will be a long time away before we have access to that stat.

The worst thing with these web apps, Scoresaver2 or whatever is you have to input the course info yourself! Thats just time consuming and un-user friendly IMHO.

Im considering the Microsoft Band to see how that works with shots gained stats and such.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I think some points on here are very well made and I am in agreement with Mendie. I would rather be hitting wedge from 100 and in the 1st cut missing FIR than be hitting 6i from the middle of the fairway.

The best stat addition that has been mentioned on here is the proximity to chipping one. I struggle around the green at times and that stat would be fantastic for me to increase my chances and knowledge of what works best for me. The only thing these apps cant take into consideration is that though so i fear that will be a long time away before we have access to that stat.

The worst thing with these web apps, Scoresaver2 or whatever is you have to input the course info yourself! Thats just time consuming and un-user friendly IMHO.

Im considering the Microsoft Band to see how that works with shots gained stats and such.

I would want more short game related figures (how close from 100 yards etc which is exactly what game golf has done and been a revelation). However I disagree with your comment on Scoresaver card marking on the course being tine consuming. It takes 10 seconds when marking a card to tick FIR GIR sand save and number of putts. It really is that quick. Time consuming to put in later but worth the effort

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

and there was me fretting a little over the meaning of a few Christmas ads when I could do a lot more fretting over the meaning and value of golf stats

 

[Jates12]

I would want more short game related figures (how close from 100 yards etc which is exactly what game golf has done and been a revelation). However I disagree with your comment on Scoresaver card marking on the course being tine consuming. It takes 10 seconds when marking a card to tick FIR GIR sand save and number of putts. It really is that quick. Time consuming to put in later but worth the effort

Homer, I didnt mean the marking on the course, thats not a problem for me. Its putting all of my course information onto the programme on my Laptop. Length of Hole, Par of Hole, SI of Hole. Why cant that be on a database somewhere for the app to automatically input. Its time consuming and frustrating.

Also, im not sure if im being stupid here but how does game golf know what proximity you are to the hole? is there a double tag system with the putter or something?

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Homer, I didnt mean the marking on the course, thats not a problem for me. Its putting all of my course information onto the programme on my Laptop. Length of Hole, Par of Hole, SI of Hole. Why cant that be on a database somewhere for the app to automatically input. Its time consuming and frustrating.

Also, im not sure if im being stupid here but how does game golf know what proximity you are to the hole? is there a double tag system with the putter or something?

But you only have to do it once. Well several times I know if you want several tee boxes per course. But it's done then. I know sites like Golfshake have the facility you refer to but don't forget I don't think SS2 is actually being refined or worked on any longer and is just a stand alone facility

 

[Jates12]

But you only have to do it once. Well several times I know if you want several tee boxes per course. But it's done then. I know sites like Golfshake have the facility you refer to but don't forget I don't think SS2 is actually being refined or worked on any longer and is just a stand alone facility

Maybe im just an impatient youth Homer! I just find it frustrating. Is golfshake any better? i like the thought of being able to track my rounds on my laptop aswell as maybe looking at game golf.

 

[drdel]

OP - You have said you're not concerned with making money but I'd suggest its probably a good way to focus on what's lacking and what the key issues are for any golfer.

As many others have said the area is pretty mature and cheap devices with accelerometers fitted to the club shaft or your glove can generate a huge amount of swing data which if added to GPS stuff is amazingly powerful but any App will then become a very large programming exercise with unwieldy sized files.

Personally I've bought GPS devices that have allowed me to record the shots as I played. Yes it gives some interesting diagnostics after a round. However after the initial 'fun' wore off I found I couldn't really be bothered faffing about between shots; especially when out with mates.

What I have done is to be careful entering my scores on the scorecard so they are legible as I have set up my desk scanner with OCR software that enables me to 'read' my scores into a spreadsheet. If I do this fairly close after the game I can usually remember most of the unusual shots and number of puts etc so its pretty easy to see if a pattern builds.

However, now I have understood my game the effort and time it takes while playing has become a barrier and if I'm totally honest it gets a bit boring after a while (for me).

I guess your target audience has to be some one desperate to compete and wants to plan a 'training'/ improvement plan with his/her professional rather than get stuck with the paralysis of over-analysis.

As you can see from our responses there is huge subjectivity and design by committee is impossible.Golfer swings and Golf course contain too many variable which are influenced by weather, terrain etc, etc.

In my experience the best business deals result from following the money!! - I'd respectively suggest your talent, programming expertise and enthusiasm might be best invested better elsewhere.

 

[Foxholer]

And I'm not sure if you understand the point I'm making either.

Well, I certainly did!

While I agree that both concepts have validity, I'm more of the opinion that when playing a course like The Duchess (actually it's not THAT tight - the height of the trees merely make it look that way) a competent player would likely adjust to the perceived tightness and not go for the 300yd Drive all the time. Of course, a competent links or 'already tight' style player (I have been in that category!) wouldn't have to adjust in the first place - possibly why I've always scored quite well on The Duchess!

On balance though, I have always considered the pure FIR/FH count to be a bit pointless compared to Mengies's metric 'normal 2nd shot' - and if you are actually counting the first cut (whether from dodgy links bounces or not) as FIR, then you are actually doing the same!

BTW. Does it matter which fairway? My host at The Shire has been known to be on the next - or even next again! - fairway on certain holes!! And often better placed to attack the pin than those of us just off the 'proper' one!

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

BTW. Does it matter which fairway? My host at The Shire has been known to be on the next - or even next again! - fairway on certain holes!! And often better placed to attack the pin than those of us just off the 'proper' one!

No it does not as long as the guy was aiming for the next or next again , fairway. The whole point of the stat is an indication of how accurately you drive the ball. If you carve it 30 yards offline but have a clear shot, that isn't accurate it's lucky.

Can someone please explain to me how I can go to the range and practice getting lucky? Could make a big difference to my scores (which incidentally is the ONLY stat I'm interested in)

 

[Khamelion]

The idea of it being cloud based so that, possibly, you could link it up with friends play the same round or others on another course, does have some mileage, but the GIR, FIR and PPH are something I don't track during a competition round.

During bounce games with mates I would simply make note on my card and then enter the stats into a couple of simple excel spread sheets I've created, nothing fancy just a line graph or two showing the trend of the aforementioned stats.

I used to use Swing by Swing, which is all singing and dancing, but it got to much to add the data after each shot and pointless at the end of a round as you'd forgotten most of the shots and what happened. Did I fat it, thin it, slice, hook, straight shot, did it land on the fairway etc.

For me a smartphone app has to be mega simple a couple of inputs then done, but then that's nothing you couldn't do with a pencil and your score card.