chrisd
Major Champion
Yep Paddy, I would make a good politician !
I think it should have been a penalty....
- Thread starter sawtooth
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Yep Paddy, I would make a good politician !
NST
Head Pro
Slightly off subject. As a newish player, can I ask what a rule is, or what my options are?
sawtooth
Tour Winner
See Delc post #17 above for an explanation of the rule.
Regarding what option do you have? That's an interesting question. Some say you have no option and its a penalty for asking advice end of story. Others may apply a bit of common sense and may choose to ignore the "breach" if they suspect no real cheating is going on.
Yes you may, as this is not "Advice" within the definition in the rules of golf. See an earlier post in this thread.
sawtooth
Tour Winner
Sorry ignore this post. I misunderstood you.
You were asking if its ok to ask about rules and what options you had - Doh.
My mistake.daymond
Tour Rookie
NST, I think the answer is yes. Beware though that your FC or partner may give you duff information. Pick up a free book of rules from any golf club and use that.
chrisd
Major Champion
The Real CHEATING can't happen by the question, only if it's answered and acted upon in my opinion. That's why I may just go a little deaf if asked.
NST
Head Pro
Thanks all.
Blue in Munich
Crocked Professional Yeti Impersonator
We played on New Years Day and on the second green after I had played my putt a fellow competitor asked me "how did that putt move?"
I told him that it would be a good idea if I didn't answer that question. I wasn't 100% sure ( I was reasonably sure) at the time that he had already broken a rule by asking the question but now I'm quite certain that he should have received a 2 shot penalty.
The 3rd person in our group didn't really say much at all so we ignored it and carried on.
In the end I am probably just as guilty as the guy who asked the question, for choosing to let it go or at least discussing it with the capt and others back in the clubhouse.
I guess you could say that I bottled it.
At that point had the fellow competitor in question still to play, or had he holed out? And if he had still to play, where from?
sawtooth
Tour Winner
I putted first from about 10ft , he putted next from the other direction so information about the line would have helped him.
So therefore he technically broke rule 8-1b, as previously described.
However, anything a player witnesses with his own eyes is not 'advice', so he should have watched your putt (not standing directly on or close to your line) to see which way it broke, and not asked the question afterwards. Likewise if you happen to see the number on the bottom of a FC's club, or notice which club is missing is missing from his bag, that does not constitute 'advice' either, as long as no physical act is involved,. See decisions 8-1/10 and 8-1/11.
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Blue in Munich
Crocked Professional Yeti Impersonator
Thanks, until you added that I wasn't sure there was a problem.
Colin L
Tour Winner
I'd suggest in any case that getting information about how a putt breaks can assist you wherever your ball might be and so asking for that information is asking for advice regardless.
Blue in Munich
Crocked Professional Yeti Impersonator
But surely not if he has already holed out? Or has marked his ball about 6" away because he would be standing on someone's line if he putted out?
Giving or asking for advice during a stipulated round contravenes Rule 8-1. Suggest you go onto the R&A website and read the rule and the associated decisions in the little box on the right.
Blue in Munich
Crocked Professional Yeti Impersonator
You posted the definition of advice. I'd suggest you go back and read it again.
bobmac
Major Champion
virtuocity
Tour Winner
Interesting thread. I hear "Take your time" loads on the course and I know that it's not allowed. I would never pull anyone up for it though. If someone wants to take issue with me not doing so on the course then that's fine. Call me a cheat or whatever- but it would be the end of comp golf for me.
In the case of the OP- it's obvious that the FC had no clue that it was a breach of rules. I would explain to him at the time that my hearing is bloody awful and that I couldn't hear what he said and walk away from him and then have a quiet, vague word with him after he putted out that should he ever play with anyone who asks him for advice in the future that it's not allowed. I would say, "I know you've never done this or would do so again, but just to let you know 'cos there's some sticklers out there".
Again- not 'right' by the rules of the game and I'm in no position to dictate what rules should be followed, ignored or broken but that's just me being honest. I personally find it's easy to distinguish between penalties for hazards & drops, penalties gained via the striking of a golf ball and penalties gained by saying the wrong thing. I know I'm wrong, but I wouldn't be bothered if I never played in a comp again if rules were enforced to that extent- I'd just play for fun.
In the case of the OP- it's obvious that the FC had no clue that it was a breach of rules. I would explain to him at the time that my hearing is bloody awful and that I couldn't hear what he said and walk away from him and then have a quiet, vague word with him after he putted out that should he ever play with anyone who asks him for advice in the future that it's not allowed. I would say, "I know you've never done this or would do so again, but just to let you know 'cos there's some sticklers out there".
Again- not 'right' by the rules of the game and I'm in no position to dictate what rules should be followed, ignored or broken but that's just me being honest. I personally find it's easy to distinguish between penalties for hazards & drops, penalties gained via the striking of a golf ball and penalties gained by saying the wrong thing. I know I'm wrong, but I wouldn't be bothered if I never played in a comp again if rules were enforced to that extent- I'd just play for fun.
I will repeat that you can give or ask for information about the rules, distances, or matters of public information, such as the position of hazards or the flagstick on the putting green, You cannot ask for any advice that could influence a player in determining his play, the choice of a club or the method of making a stroke. So if in doubt keep quiet!
As examples you can say that it's 150 yards to the green, but you can't say it's about a 7-iron. If you spot some terrible flaw in a FC's swing, you can't tell him about it during the the round, but you could point it out after the round is complete. Saying "Take your time" over a short putt is technically a breach of the rules. None of this applies to partners or caddies btw.
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Foxholer
Blackballed
While your statement is correct, you have again misunderstood the Rule (in combo with the definition)!
Giving/requesting advice is indeed a breach. but if the player has holed out, then any comment is not 'Advice' as per the definition, as it's not going to influence... etc
"Advice" is any counsel or suggestion that could influence a player in determining his play, the choice of a club or the method of making a stroke.
Same applies to asking a FC or Opponent what club he used after you've both played to a Par 3.
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