how many golf clubs are going to go bust

[Gazboy]

I'd love to know how my old club is doing (Wycombe Heights). Last year both courses were absolutely heaving, the main course was over crowded, the par 3 was full to capacity most days and you could struggle to park your car even in the week days. Despite not renewing my membership in April I still use the practice facilities there and even on a Saturday the carpark is half full at the most, the par 3 course is only busy during the school holidays and the main course is fairly quiet and not in the same condition as last year although I suspect the hosepipe ban hasn't helped them. Lots of 'Play from £9.99' banners around the car park too.

 

[duncan mackie]

I know of one club close to where I live that nearly went bust last year, but they sorted themselves, got a load of new members and are doing really well now.

The thing I don't get though are the club secretaries who look at gift horses in the mouth, what I mean is, I was looking for a club that did a pay and play scheme, there's no point in me paying for a years membership as work commitments mean I only get to play every other weekend, or 26 weeks of the year, so when my dad approached the secretary of his club and asked if paying a couple hundred quid for membership but then still paid green fees albeit at a reduced rate, the secretary nearly had a coronary, I think the words were, "no no no we don't do that sort of thing here".

Why?

OKay the club membership may be full, but it's not as if I would be there every week taking up tee times and it's money in the bank for them.

When clubs are looking to make money to stay afloat, you would have thought new ideas to the club would have been welcomed with open arms rather than have the door firmly slammed in their face.

at first glance this may seem straightforward, but look again and you will quickly find minefields for the unwary (that many have experienced).

the most obvious one is 50% of the current membership renewing on this 'new basis' (generally implemented under the banner of flexi or approach memberships).

I also suspect that there are a huge number of golfers who don't play 26 times a year at 'their clubs'

I agree the principle that (most) clubs need to balance the various income elements a lot better than they have needed to in the past, but there is also a huge gap in the running costs across the country, and the concept of 'extreme financial difficulty' given some of the numbers quoted above!

Strange though it may seem, it's likely that the lower income/lower outgoing operations are likely to be the ones struggling most because they have little income to play with, and few costs to 'save'.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

One club that is no more than a long par 5 from where I work is currently in such a state they've sold different parts of the set-up to 3 different buyers.

-Clubhouse and function suite sold to a former pub landlord,
- Driving Range to a keen golfer and businessman,
- The Course and Greenkeeping facilities have been sold to a 3rd party indivivual.

Currently they are between the 3 of them arguing over who has to pay what bills, as the billing accounts for the properties are all interlinked e.g the water supply for all 3 is done through the same supply yet not one of them admits responsibility, only reason I know this is I work for the company that supplies them. Is a complete mess and no idea how they are going to rectify it and run a succesful club as 3 seperate entities.

Sounds an awful lot like our railways...

 

[Fader]

Sounds an awful lot like our railways...

Can't see them being in business for much longer to be honest, they have masses of debts where they cannot decide on who should pay what, and can't see how at least the clubhouse and course can function as seperate entities. The range maybe able to because there are many ranges that do just that.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I know of one club close to where I live that nearly went bust last year, but they sorted themselves, got a load of new members and are doing really well now.

The thing I don't get though are the club secretaries who look at gift horses in the mouth, what I mean is, I was looking for a club that did a pay and play scheme, there's no point in me paying for a years membership as work commitments mean I only get to play every other weekend, or 26 weeks of the year, so when my dad approached the secretary of his club and asked if paying a couple hundred quid for membership but then still paid green fees albeit at a reduced rate, the secretary nearly had a coronary, I think the words were, "no no no we don't do that sort of thing here".

Why?

OKay the club membership may be full, but it's not as if I would be there every week taking up tee times and it's money in the bank for them.

When clubs are looking to make money to stay afloat, you would have thought new ideas to the club would have been welcomed with open arms rather than have the door firmly slammed in their face.

Absolutely see your point - but in my club I can imagine that there would be a rush by full members to convert to that sort of membership if it was brought in - and that would be pretty dire financially for the the club. For four years I worked away from home during the week - so no weekday or weekday evening golf for four years. Had a chat with our Secretary to see if there was anything the club could do - but nope. The club isn't heartless - it will waive fees if someone can't play at all for medical reasons. But we choose our lives, our work and our golf club.

Seems simple - but introducing new types of membership to an established club - difficult.

 

[GB72]

There really is a fine line to tread between putting in place schemes to attract new members and those schemes losing revenue from eisting ones. I am all for the flexible membership as most times I can only play at weekends. I can see how that woudl attract new members. Problem is that it would also appeal to existing members and so people who are currently paying full membership because they have to may well move onto a scheme that only brings the club half the revenue but the member still plays the same amount of golf.

You can also put in place schemes for new members that annoy the existing membership to the extent that they move on. Take my old club, first it removed joining fees. A reasonable idea but it annoyed the members who had paid in full and those that were still paying theirs who still had to. They also froze the fees for new members and increased fees for existing members. It may attract new members but it also annoyed a number of longer term members who left.

It really is a fine line to tread

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

There really is a fine line to tread between putting in place schemes to attract new members and those schemes losing revenue from eisting ones. I am all for the flexible membership as most times I can only play at weekends. I can see how that woudl attract new members. Problem is that it would also appeal to existing members and so people who are currently paying full membership because they have to may well move onto a scheme that only brings the club half the revenue but the member still plays the same amount of golf.

You can also put in place schemes for new members that annoy the existing membership to the extent that they move on. Take my old club, first it removed joining fees. A reasonable idea but it annoyed the members who had paid in full and those that were still paying theirs who still had to. They also froze the fees for new members and increased fees for existing members. It may attract new members but it also annoyed a number of longer term members who left.

It really is a fine line to tread

yup - not easy.

 

[Liverbirdie]

Reading all this begs a question, are members responsible for debt, if private members clubs go belly up.

Ok most could normally sell the land and assets and would probably end up up, but if no-ones buying land, would members be responsible, as we all have shares, normally.

Our club is ok from what I hear and should be debt free within 2 years, and we have spent £30,000 last year on a complete new hole, but obviously most are not.

 

[williamalex1]

my club has no debt as such , but the upkeep ect. and lower membership will cause problems . if the worst did happen ' and club was sold off , members would get no money back , as their right was signed away a few years ago to get a grant from the r and a -all the land, equip . buildings would go to a sports trust , if i remember right

 

[Olivavu]

Pay and play is the way to go.

Too many courses charge £40-£50 for a round and it is too much for the average golfer to pay.

Weald of Kent have a great 241 voucher scheme that keeps tee times getting booked that may not otherwise.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Too many courses charge £40-£50 for a round and it is too much for the average golfer to pay

I agree - and that's what my track charges visitors. But my subs are £1300 a year :-(

Means I rarely play other tracks. Just can't afford to.